I think it's in the best interest of TMC to open up a frank, honest, and open discussion thread on this topic. It sounds like there is some behind-the-scenes drama afoot.
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Guidelines for Post Signatures
- Thread starter doug
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I'm not sure if your comments were directed to me.
To clarify, I am not affiliated with TMC, nor am I a TMC moderator. My remark was merely my interpretation of Doug's initial posting.
In the interest of clarity hopefully Doug will confirm or correct my interpretation.
By the way, I greatly applaud your contribution as well as the other Founders for TESLIVE.
Larry
Hmm... it's actually borderline commercial since there are ads on the site. I think that's how we're defining commercial. If the site has ads or is selling a product or service. We're basically trying to get advertising and links to advertising out of the signature. Have to draw a line somewhere. I do like root beer, though.
Your sig is fine.
Your sig shows up with every post. Having a lot of email addresses in plain sight makes us more of a target for spam bots. You are of course free to send someone your email address in a PM or post it in a private group (if you use that feature). Also people can send you email by clicking on your username if you've selected that option in your settings.
You can have a link your specific local club, be that a thread on TMC or elsewhere. We're discouraging links to general competing Tesla websites in the signature, though, since it's too easy to abuse. Have to draw a line somewhere. We define competing as sites that duplicate something we do here.
Umm... there's no drama, at least on my part. We're just trying to have some consistent policies.
Jgdixon
Active Member
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Tell me to remove it and it's gone, but borderline makes it seem like it can go either way. I have had PMs from people thanking me for letting me know about the site if that helps, plus I often talk about EVs in the blog since many root beers are found attending conferences or giving seminars about EVs.
I think the purpose of this forum is to increase awareness about Tesla and advocate for Tesla. I understand that guidelines for signatures are necessary for quality control, but as long as the signature is consistent with the website's mission and promotes the brand, it should be left alone. We already have guidelines for signature (word limit). Does the moderators really have time to comb through signatures of thousands of members? Whatever the moderators decide it will need to be embedded into the code, to not accept certain things in signatures. It will be impossible to implement these guidelines on thousands of users, and even the thought of it sounds ridiculous to me.
If we decide against images, then ban all images, why some images are being left as they too occupy space. Let's make a good faith attempt not to put your signature on a page multiple times. I try to unclick "show your signature" before I post if my signature has been on the page. Better idea would be to have that button not selected and a member can select it if he wants the signature on the thread. I don't understand why every member is typing disclaimer, can't we just make a rule that anything posted on this website is for this website's purpose and should not be posted elsewhere. Can anyone please explain the advantage of a disclaimer and extra "security" it provides with some legal evidence? Just imagine how much space you would save, if you get rid of all the disclaimers.
I agree with John on the sentiment about TeslaOwners. I am a contributor to the website, but so to TMC as well and also a supporter though not to an extent of Founders. I post heavily though mainly in Michigan thread. I think both the website are complementary and not at all competing. They both serve the same mission. There is wealth of information in TMC forums and TO provides tools to local chapters to organize their membership rosters and promote local events for public interaction. I don't see any overlap. The site has been extremely useful to us to collect contact details of our members. It is very helpful for club official to organize their club data.
People who started TO are die-hard TMC supporters, swear by it, and will always stand by TMC in spite being ignored multiple times. I think everybody here agrees that TMC is irreplaceable and doesn't need to worry about anything, however sure needs to partner. A partnership between these two websites would be wonderful and we will be able to achieve our common goal together sooner. We have a bigger opposition to fight and we should not be fighting within ourselves. There are multiple way to get enthusiasts involved and I hope that a partnership can involve more people than they can do on their own.
If we decide against images, then ban all images, why some images are being left as they too occupy space. Let's make a good faith attempt not to put your signature on a page multiple times. I try to unclick "show your signature" before I post if my signature has been on the page. Better idea would be to have that button not selected and a member can select it if he wants the signature on the thread. I don't understand why every member is typing disclaimer, can't we just make a rule that anything posted on this website is for this website's purpose and should not be posted elsewhere. Can anyone please explain the advantage of a disclaimer and extra "security" it provides with some legal evidence? Just imagine how much space you would save, if you get rid of all the disclaimers.
I agree with John on the sentiment about TeslaOwners. I am a contributor to the website, but so to TMC as well and also a supporter though not to an extent of Founders. I post heavily though mainly in Michigan thread. I think both the website are complementary and not at all competing. They both serve the same mission. There is wealth of information in TMC forums and TO provides tools to local chapters to organize their membership rosters and promote local events for public interaction. I don't see any overlap. The site has been extremely useful to us to collect contact details of our members. It is very helpful for club official to organize their club data.
People who started TO are die-hard TMC supporters, swear by it, and will always stand by TMC in spite being ignored multiple times. I think everybody here agrees that TMC is irreplaceable and doesn't need to worry about anything, however sure needs to partner. A partnership between these two websites would be wonderful and we will be able to achieve our common goal together sooner. We have a bigger opposition to fight and we should not be fighting within ourselves. There are multiple way to get enthusiasts involved and I hope that a partnership can involve more people than they can do on their own.
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We already had that and the press doesn't give a flip. The signature disclaimer is a relatively recent development and, no, we have not idea if it really matters or not. My opinion of the press is that they simply suck and generally have -- at best -- questionable ethics. They made that bed and peed in it. They can live with the smell.
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Some of the subsequent posts are suggesting otherwise, doug.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Ugh. Brianman. no.
Look, people are taking this personally when the intent was only to put out a consistent set of guidelines. You guys don't see what the mods see. Well, you see some of it. I'm sure you can all think a bit and come up with some obnoxious signatures that irritated you. In fact, some of you complaining right now have reported some others for signatures you found to be too commercial. So yay! We heard you. Don't make this into something it is not. There is no drama. No hidden agenda. No back story going on. Nothing.
And ... that's all I have to say. Other than 'don't make this into a big deal'. Because it isn't one.
Look, people are taking this personally when the intent was only to put out a consistent set of guidelines. You guys don't see what the mods see. Well, you see some of it. I'm sure you can all think a bit and come up with some obnoxious signatures that irritated you. In fact, some of you complaining right now have reported some others for signatures you found to be too commercial. So yay! We heard you. Don't make this into something it is not. There is no drama. No hidden agenda. No back story going on. Nothing.
And ... that's all I have to say. Other than 'don't make this into a big deal'. Because it isn't one.
@ brianman
that was some hilarious analogy you used for press. I was LMFAO.
@ bonnie
If there is no hidden agenda then why not partner and fight the common enemy. Folks at TO have always endorsed TMC and are doing it right now. Click the forums and you see a TMC frame. Tell me which competing website would do that.
@mods
when we are discussing space saving, can we stop quoting everybody, or atleast quote the main sentence rather than quoting the entire post. That will save huge amounts of space.
To make it clear, I support TMC and will always support it, but seriously consider partnership.
that was some hilarious analogy you used for press. I was LMFAO.
@ bonnie
If there is no hidden agenda then why not partner and fight the common enemy. Folks at TO have always endorsed TMC and are doing it right now. Click the forums and you see a TMC frame. Tell me which competing website would do that.
@mods
when we are discussing space saving, can we stop quoting everybody, or atleast quote the main sentence rather than quoting the entire post. That will save huge amounts of space.
To make it clear, I support TMC and will always support it, but seriously consider partnership.
Yeah, that's pretty much what it means. I wouldn't worry about it for now.
The majority of it will be handled by the code. We're just giving people a heads up beforehand. Somethings aren't easily handled automatically, such as allowing different colors but disallowing "obnoxious use of color." So we'll trust members to use good judgement, or try to nudge them in the right direction when we notice.
That's what we're doing.
Members can set whether or not signatures are visible in their General Settings under Thread Display Options.
Nobody is fighting anyone. I don't understand where that idea is coming from. Understand that we get contacted by someone wanting to partner with TMC on almost a weekly basis. Don't take it personally.
If there's any drama it's one sided. Please don't create drama.
We would have to selectively edit out what was quoted and might be accused of changing the meaning or intent of their reply. It really is up to the person replying to think about what is needed in the quote for their reply. We do sometimes take out some images when someone quotes 10 full size images and leave one but usually don't touch text.
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sp4rk
Banned
Am I selecting the wrong configuration here? Why can the forum boards not indent a reply and not repeat the original quote?
I refer to other forums, especially like, dare I mention it, Faceb00k, DISCUS, etc. where a reply is added, where on here, after posting, you're dumped off at the last page even if you were reading say page 10 of 20.
My reply should appear underneath the message I replied to and not at the end of the thread.
I realize this is modified off-the-shelf software and no, I don't mean Display, Linear mode setting. That's nasty!
As for TeslaOwners, as one of the founders, and having had our team meet TMC management at Teslive; and followed up since, I can only echo Aphysicians sentiments.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
A good tip I found is using a table in your signature (there are even quick icons to do it) so that a graphic and text can be next to each other (vs on top) and take up less space.
I vote that a Tesla related graphic of 51 pixels or less be allowed.
sp4rk, IMHO, you can remove the "Chicago area." extra line because people will assume you are from that area if you are part of the Member Chicago Chapter.
I vote that a Tesla related graphic of 51 pixels or less be allowed.
sp4rk, IMHO, you can remove the "Chicago area." extra line because people will assume you are from that area if you are part of the Member Chicago Chapter.
@mods
Regarding quoting, I like sp4rk's suggestion to indent the reply and have it under the original post. I would like to comment on a post in the middle of the thread, and my reply is added at the end of the thread. The original poster will have no idea that somebody replied to his post. If we are thinking of space, then this will save lots of space by not quoting. This will also encourage the discussion as posts will be better tied. Having a lot of posts in a thread in confusing and as soon as it crosses over 100 you start to loose track where the discussion is going. Haven't we seen many times that people will just read the last post, which is completely different than what the original post intended and people reply to that post and then mods have to redirect the discussion. When post number in thread reaches high number, people wont put new stuff in it and start new post, which leads to duplicate threads. There should be a function for original poster to delete irrelevant posts, or for housekeeping purpose original poster/mods should summarize the discussion every 10th post and then delete those posts, this will keep the discussion current and will keep the post number in check.
I thought putting TeslaOwners logo was a good judgement, it is Tesla related, enhances our community, not a profit website which sells stuff and blends in the overall color scheme of the website. I sincerely think that TO will bring the community closer, and we haven't abused TMC's resources. As I learned that TMC may not be comfortable with promoting other websites, I stopped contacting members using TMC's resources.
I would like to know from the mods, if they really consider TO as a competing website or not? in Yes or No fashion. If yes, it will very unfortunate thing to hear, Folks at TO never intended to compete, always wanted to collaborate. I still didnt get answer to my question, why would TO promote TMC forums if they are competing? If not a competing website then why not have a link here. What I got from the discussion that I can only link TMC page or thread and no external link.
If we are not fighting... do not have any hidden agenda, then can we work together? I understand partnership may be too much to ask, but how about support. Why not set up a conference call and clear the air once and for all.
Regarding quoting, I like sp4rk's suggestion to indent the reply and have it under the original post. I would like to comment on a post in the middle of the thread, and my reply is added at the end of the thread. The original poster will have no idea that somebody replied to his post. If we are thinking of space, then this will save lots of space by not quoting. This will also encourage the discussion as posts will be better tied. Having a lot of posts in a thread in confusing and as soon as it crosses over 100 you start to loose track where the discussion is going. Haven't we seen many times that people will just read the last post, which is completely different than what the original post intended and people reply to that post and then mods have to redirect the discussion. When post number in thread reaches high number, people wont put new stuff in it and start new post, which leads to duplicate threads. There should be a function for original poster to delete irrelevant posts, or for housekeeping purpose original poster/mods should summarize the discussion every 10th post and then delete those posts, this will keep the discussion current and will keep the post number in check.
I thought putting TeslaOwners logo was a good judgement, it is Tesla related, enhances our community, not a profit website which sells stuff and blends in the overall color scheme of the website. I sincerely think that TO will bring the community closer, and we haven't abused TMC's resources. As I learned that TMC may not be comfortable with promoting other websites, I stopped contacting members using TMC's resources.
I would like to know from the mods, if they really consider TO as a competing website or not? in Yes or No fashion. If yes, it will very unfortunate thing to hear, Folks at TO never intended to compete, always wanted to collaborate. I still didnt get answer to my question, why would TO promote TMC forums if they are competing? If not a competing website then why not have a link here. What I got from the discussion that I can only link TMC page or thread and no external link.
If we are not fighting... do not have any hidden agenda, then can we work together? I understand partnership may be too much to ask, but how about support. Why not set up a conference call and clear the air once and for all.
Aphysician: Feel free to start a new topic about how you'd like the forum software to handle quoting. Irrelevant posts are usually moved to a new topic or to off topic. I think trying to summarize every thread in this forum every ten posts might be a lot of work and might actually distract and annoy people.
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I appreciate the hard work moderators put in to keep this site functioning well. It is a well managed site for the amount of traffic it is getting recently. I agree summarizing is a tricky act, and may not go well with all, so we will need to find ways to save space and decrease the number of unnecessary post or tie in the material better so the website is easier to navigate. I will sure start a new post for forum suggestions.
I am still not clear whether TO is considered a competing website or not and whether I can have a link to TO. How can I use TMC resources to contact like minded people when doing so is considered abuse? I personally dont think TO is duplicating anything, they dont have forums and endorse TMC for forums. The definition of competing website is too loose. Let's see what is the big overview of TMC "Trying to bring Tesla fans together". If we just take that then any source that is trying to bring Tesla fans together will qualify as competing website, including local club websites, facebook and twitter pages, meetup pages. That's why I propose that if a link promotes Tesla, then just leave it alone.
I am still not clear whether TO is considered a competing website or not and whether I can have a link to TO. How can I use TMC resources to contact like minded people when doing so is considered abuse? I personally dont think TO is duplicating anything, they dont have forums and endorse TMC for forums. The definition of competing website is too loose. Let's see what is the big overview of TMC "Trying to bring Tesla fans together". If we just take that then any source that is trying to bring Tesla fans together will qualify as competing website, including local club websites, facebook and twitter pages, meetup pages. That's why I propose that if a link promotes Tesla, then just leave it alone.
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Your signature may not include:
- obnoxious font colors
- images or animations
- unapproved advertising messages
- links to commercial or competing websites
- e-mail address or phone numbers
Probably most member signatures are already in compliance with these guidelines. We'll give a few weeks grace period for those that aren't. When in doubt ask me or one of the mods.
I guess that means I fail on points 3 and 4? How's does an 'advertising message' become approved?
I definitely don't want to go against any guidelines, and I'm grateful for the support that I've got from the TMC community.
I would say that there's different levels of "commercial" though, and different objectives. My project is more of a hobby that grew from a genuine need from many owners, and based on analytics, about 80% of my custom comes via the TMC website, implying that most of my customers are either TMC forum members, or at least came via TMC to find me, generating traffic to the TMC site. Sure, some will still find me in the Parts for Sale, but there's not a day that passes that I don't get a PM asking how to order, so that's not a natural place for many to look. I do not advertise anywhere, aside from in the PfS forum, and, I guess, my sig.
I do regard TMC as a community, and as such I feel that it should nurture "home grown" ideas. It's a difficult line to draw though, and I get that, so I'm completely cool with it either way.
I enjoy this forum immensely. It enriches my day to day life. I have and will continue to contribute financially to this forum . I appreciate the hard work the moderators and forum members put into it.
I rarely if ever read someone's signature.
To limit advertisement is fine ( although i agree with pete,s post above 100 per cent) but to start limiting choice! Ie. colour choice ...what one considers " obnoxious" and what one does not, is frankly ridiculous. Some people like chocolate, some vanilla. Bob Weir hated tie dye, things seem to have worked out. Just say no colours if it really really detracts from this's forum so much or remove them altogether. Censorship of posts (which happens not all that infrequently )and signatures is a slippery slope. Once one losses the freedom to express themselves in whatever terms they want to use is lost, so goes nearly everything that is the base of a good open unbiased discussion.
I rarely if ever read someone's signature.
To limit advertisement is fine ( although i agree with pete,s post above 100 per cent) but to start limiting choice! Ie. colour choice ...what one considers " obnoxious" and what one does not, is frankly ridiculous. Some people like chocolate, some vanilla. Bob Weir hated tie dye, things seem to have worked out. Just say no colours if it really really detracts from this's forum so much or remove them altogether. Censorship of posts (which happens not all that infrequently )and signatures is a slippery slope. Once one losses the freedom to express themselves in whatever terms they want to use is lost, so goes nearly everything that is the base of a good open unbiased discussion.
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@pete8314
Agree with you. I just checked out your key fob, really pretty useful. You will be getting a PM from me soon. TeslaOwners is also started by enthusiasts as a hobby and is devoid of any advertisements. We feel that it genuinely helps local clubs to organize better, promotes the brand and would like other clubs to take advantage of it.
@ Ocelot
I agree with you on all counts, moderators work really hard to keep this website functioning well. I enjoy reading others thoughts, and no signature has ever distracted me from reading a well written post. Restricting signatures too much will limit self-expression and will also take away the unique flavor that various users bring to the forum.
@dsm363
I have started 2 polls on site feedback forum, to get a consensus from the members about signatures and other space saving tips we can use to enhance forum experience. You are more than welcome to lead the polls.
Suggestions to Enhance Forums Experience and Few Space Saving Tips - Part 1
Suggestions to Enhance Forums Experience and Few Space Saving Tips - Part 2
Agree with you. I just checked out your key fob, really pretty useful. You will be getting a PM from me soon. TeslaOwners is also started by enthusiasts as a hobby and is devoid of any advertisements. We feel that it genuinely helps local clubs to organize better, promotes the brand and would like other clubs to take advantage of it.
@ Ocelot
I agree with you on all counts, moderators work really hard to keep this website functioning well. I enjoy reading others thoughts, and no signature has ever distracted me from reading a well written post. Restricting signatures too much will limit self-expression and will also take away the unique flavor that various users bring to the forum.
@dsm363
I have started 2 polls on site feedback forum, to get a consensus from the members about signatures and other space saving tips we can use to enhance forum experience. You are more than welcome to lead the polls.
Suggestions to Enhance Forums Experience and Few Space Saving Tips - Part 1
Suggestions to Enhance Forums Experience and Few Space Saving Tips - Part 2
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