Group Buy Poll for Mono-Block Forged Alloy Wheels by Titan 7

[Xenoilphobe]

Seeing these videos with decreasing the wheel diameter and overall rotational mass weight with negligible difference in performance is making me rethink going down to 19” wheeels. I’m still replacing my OEM 20s but may go with lighter weight aftermarket 20s since performance has not significantly increased going down to 19s and 18s.

A larger wheel decreases range.. Ever wonder why Formula 1 uses small wheels?

So the new sizes for slick tires will be 305/670-13 at the front and 405/670-13 at the rear (the total diameter will go from the current 660mm to 670mm). Wheel rim diameter remains unchanged at 13 inches.
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[Xenoilphobe]

How could he? The old tires where 20" and new ones had to be 18" because of the 18" rim.

He means same quality of tires on both runs. He ran with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S $339 on the 20's and on the 18's he ran with $150 crappy Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105's.....Why?

tire rack doesn't even want to show the ratings they are so bad or they haven't tested them yet.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have not seen anyone compare the efficiency/range of wheels in different weights.

this!!!

 

[Xenoilphobe]

He means same compound not summer tires on one wheel and all seasons on the other.. Why did he run the 18's on crappy Yokohama's?

$150 Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105's, verses $339 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S High Performance tires... this is a laughable test.... qui bono? Would also like to see the watts per mile usage with both setups... I loved the video until I figured out this detail... Also they could drop more wheel weight with mono block forged verses the flow formed wheels they used.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Appreciate your post but that makes no sense to me. I have a performance Model P3+ and she is buttery smooth with factory 20 inch wheels. I can speak from experience and tell you the 20's on this platform have a better and more planted driving feel than even my 911 TTS. The P3D+ is rock solid and seemingly rides on a cushion. The closest ride feeling to me has been my experience with the Mclaren and its hydraulic suspension. The Model X also comes to mind. I also enjoy the look of the larger wheels. Makes the car look more substantial. You really should drive a P3D+. Your S experience and the current P3+ vehicle platform are worlds refined.

I simply buy forged aftermarket and drive without issue. I have 21 HREs on the 911 and would argue that the smaller wheel radius is a bunch of fake news promulgated by internet racers.

I have a ton of experience at this and I routinely rip 1.4 60's and 9.8s at 140 in the 1/4. with big wheels.

Anyway this really isn't the focus of my post or intent. Simply want to upgrade my factory 20's on my P3D+ to aftermarket and willing to take the initiative to get this done if there are any like minded owners.

I agree with all your assessments but one -
"...and would argue that the smaller wheel radius is a bunch of fake news promulgated by internet racers."

it is basic physics, if the wheel weighs more it requires more energy to move it. If you have ever ridden a road bike, you can feel the energy drain out of you body as you try and climb a hill on a heavy bike. This is why road bikes moved to carbon fiber frames, wheels etc and started measuring every gram....it matters.

In the case of the Model 3, where the car is being software limited by Tesla, it may not make a huge impact on 0-60, but it will be reflected in higher watts per mile and and a reduction in range. When I went from 21's to 19's on my S, the range increased by about 3% or ~8 miles. On the Model X when you go from 20's to 22's, the range hit is ~10 to ~15 %...or ~40 miles, when model X owners figured this out many saved $10,000 by not upgrading to the larger battery and stayed with the 20 inch wheels to net the same range..

Range penalty for 21" wheels vs 19"

Tesla Model X 20" vs 22" wheel range impact: bigger isn't better

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Buying Performance Tires - Best size for 18-inch wheel?

 

[P3D+]

Yes I agree range can be increased with improved unsprung weight however that's only one variable and varies tremendously in real world application. Overall weight reduction is another. I wasn't really speaking to the question of range and more to speed and look.

 

[nalang]

A larger wheel decreases range.. Ever wonder why Formula 1 uses small wheels?

So the new sizes for slick tires will be 305/670-13 at the front and 405/670-13 at the rear (the total diameter will go from the current 660mm to 670mm). Wheel rim diameter remains unchanged at 13 inches.

I’m not worried about impacting my range. It’s the same reason why we got the 22” turbines on our X.

There has been a lot of talk about increasing performance by decreasing wheel diameter and weight but there are videos reporting insignificant gains by doing so. This is why I’m rethinking going down to 19s and may just stick with 20s.

 

[ba2002]

Appreciate your post but that makes no sense to me. I have a performance Model P3+ and she is buttery smooth with factory 20 inch wheels. I can speak from experience and tell you the 20's on this platform have a better and more planted driving feel than even my 911 TTS. The P3D+ is rock solid and seemingly rides on a cushion. The closest ride feeling to me has been my experience with the Mclaren and its hydraulic suspension. The Model X also comes to mind. I also enjoy the look of the larger wheels. Makes the car look more substantial. You really should drive a P3D+. Your S experience and the current P3+ vehicle platform are worlds refined.
.

Am I missing something? I keep reading posts with people describing the 3 ride as smooth. My 3 is not remotely as smooth as my S that had 19s and air suspension. Did I get a lemon or something?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I’m not worried about impacting my range. It’s the same reason why we got the 22” turbines on our X.

There has been a lot of talk about increasing performance by decreasing wheel diameter and weight but there are videos reporting insignificant gains by doing so. This is why I’m rethinking going down to 19s and may just stick with 20s.

If I lived in Southern CA, I wouldn't care about range either, but drop the temperature 80 degrees and try to drive 80MPH in dense cold air with slippery roads and suddenly that 300 miles of range becomes 150... add in the potholes and cracked wheels and excessive costs... and I am out.

Here is calculator to see the impact of weather on the Models S, http://teslamotors.free.fr/#!/

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Am I missing something? I keep reading posts with people describing the 3 ride as smooth. My 3 is not remotely as smooth as my S that had 19s and air suspension. Did I get a lemon or something?

Yeah some of these guys must be coming over from Corollas and Civics, cause I felt that same way. I did hear that Tesla did some modes to the suspension in later production and its more compliant now, but the noise level is still a bit higher than the S.

 

[ba2002]

Yeah some of these guys must be coming over from Corollas and Civics, cause I felt that same way. I did hear that Tesla did some modes to the suspension in later production and its more compliant now, but the noise level is still a bit higher than the S.

Yeah my 3 was mfr 8/28 so is probably most recent suspension. Tire noise definitely more in the 3.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

He means same quality of tires on both runs. He ran with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S $339 on the 20's and on the 18's he ran with $150 crappy Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105's.....Why?

tire rack doesn't even want to show the ratings they are so bad or they haven't tested them yet.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP

I was wrong about the Yokohama ADVAN's, one of the guys at work told me they are great track tires with a pretty sticky compound, but the compromise is that they wear really fast with the 240 Tread Wear rating.

 

[P3D+]

Am I missing something? I keep reading posts with people describing the 3 ride as smooth. My 3 is not remotely as smooth as my S that had 19s and air suspension. Did I get a lemon or something?

Yes you are clearly missing the "+". Take a spin in a performance chassis and it will all make sense.

 

[Vines]

Am I missing something? I keep reading posts with people describing the 3 ride as smooth. My 3 is not remotely as smooth as my S that had 19s and air suspension. Did I get a lemon or something?

I think the 3 is designed to have a different feel and the air suspension will always isolate you more than coils and struts will. The S is designed to be a cruiser, or touring car and the 3 is designed to be a sport sedan.

It is a good blend of isolation and connection in my opinion and is rapidly becoming my favorite car I have ever driven.

 

[ba2002]

Yes you are clearly missing the "+". Take a spin in a performance chassis and it will all make sense.

I don't think upgrading to larger wheels and stickier tires is going to help me find a smoother, quieter ride. I imagine we just have different preferences.

 

[nalang]

If I lived in Southern CA, I wouldn't care about range either, but drop the temperature 80 degrees and try to drive 80MPH in dense cold air with slippery roads and suddenly that 300 miles of range becomes 150... add in the potholes and cracked wheels and excessive costs... and I am out.

Yikes! I guess I will never know since I drive my lifted 4Runner to the mountains during SoCal “snow season” Now I understand your perspective.

 

[R1Fast]

I don't think upgrading to larger wheels and stickier tires is going to help me find a smoother, quieter ride. I imagine we just have different preferences.

The tires you choose can definitely impact the quiet factor of your ride. In fact, it's one of the biggest factors of road noise. Tread design, channeling and compound are all major components of that, EV or not.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Buying Performance Tires - Best size for 18-inch wheel?

Quote: "19x10+35 and 275/35R19. We are very pleased with the results."

Also cool calculator with suspension geometry included.

Rim & Tire Size Calculator. Custom Offsets

Looks like @MPP was able to get 19 X 10 +35's to fit "squares" with 275 rubber on a RWD Model 3....

 

[R1Fast]

Looks like @MPP was able to get 19 X 10 +35's to fit "squares" with 275 rubber on a RWD Model 3....

View attachment 342390

Adding link

Big Hmmmmm.... would an AWD be different I wonder? 19x10 is a little wide but I bet the Titans would look fantastic at that size.