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Sawyer8888
Member
I believe this is normal. Most threads indicate a quick battery degradation within the first year / 10-12K miles. Fremont has also given me the same response in the past.
My MS60 once lost 2 miles after one charge - that was about 4 months into ownership. After 7 months and 12K miles, I am down to 202 after starting at 210. The max charge of 210 didn't last long at all. My daily charge to 70% is 142 and the few times I have gone to 100% recently, 202 is it. The losses seem to be slowing down in frequency.
I don't believe this is covered in the manual and it is likely never mentioned at delivery, let alone during the sale. A little expectation-setting from Tesla would help in this regard.
My MS60 once lost 2 miles after one charge - that was about 4 months into ownership. After 7 months and 12K miles, I am down to 202 after starting at 210. The max charge of 210 didn't last long at all. My daily charge to 70% is 142 and the few times I have gone to 100% recently, 202 is it. The losses seem to be slowing down in frequency.
I don't believe this is covered in the manual and it is likely never mentioned at delivery, let alone during the sale. A little expectation-setting from Tesla would help in this regard.
Loss of more than 1% is expected in the first year, then it’s less than 1% per year. Also remember the range you see is an estimate of charge, as charge can’t be measured directly. The algorithm is more or less accurate at times depending on what you’ve charged to.
Xenius
Active Member
It's pretty normal. Your capacity is still the same, but the car is learning what you can really do with it. My 90% charge is currently 190 whereas it was just over 200 when delivered. (S60D, software locked 75 battery).
Sawyer8888
Member
I believe this is false. Other posts seem to indicate that there is no learning ability of the car in this respect and that the loss of miles is entirely the degregation of the battery. One poster the other day was fairly upset to see this rumor still going around on this forum. I'll share that post if I can find it.
Found it:
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You don't ever need to ask about any 1 or 2 mile differences. Measuring battery capacities isn't like measuring sugar or water in a measuring cup, where you can see exactly where it physically is versus the lines on the side. Battery capacities have to be done as estimates of the energy going in and out, and that isn't quite as exact. Besides, your 1 mile out of 220 is less than half a percent. There's just not enough resolution for it to be that accurate.
Now the other thing is that yes, you will probably see somewhere around 5-8 miles lower within about the first half a year from that estimator getting a little bit off if you're not running it from empty to full often for it to be able to get a more accurate reading. Most new owners kind of freak out about that, but it happens to all of the cars, so don't worry about it. It will stay pretty flat there for the next few years, though.
Now the other thing is that yes, you will probably see somewhere around 5-8 miles lower within about the first half a year from that estimator getting a little bit off if you're not running it from empty to full often for it to be able to get a more accurate reading. Most new owners kind of freak out about that, but it happens to all of the cars, so don't worry about it. It will stay pretty flat there for the next few years, though.
I agree as far as it's not tuning itself to your driving habits or driving efficiency, but there does seem to be a factor from what state of charge is being used. If you're only going from 60% to 80% and back all the time, the estimation algorithm seems to lose some perspective about what the readings really should be for nearly full and nearly empty, so it seems to drift off a little bit. It's not good or bad about the health of the battery or the actual energy in it, but people start to get nervous about how the number is moving.
This is normal for new car. It's just learning what the battery can do with your driving and rates of depletion to come up with range estimates. You're not really losing any battery capacity at all. The software is trying to figure out a better estimate to give you.
Set the display to % SOC instead of distance/range indication.
1. it reduces your range anxiety, gets you away from thinking about specific "miles until empty"...(like a time-bomb!) and is more like looking at a gas tank gauge in an ICE car... you just really need to know when you're almost full, half empty, last quarter... etc. You know you need to shop around for a charge when you're 25%, say. Just like you would have gone to a gas station in the last quarter of a tank.
2. % SOC is more accurate measurement than estimated range. It's just sampling the battery only. Not your driving patterns.
3. don't use ideal range, it's like expecting your car's EPA sticker amount to come true for every trip.. It will not. Because those were ideal controlled tests.
Set the display to % SOC instead of distance/range indication.
1. it reduces your range anxiety, gets you away from thinking about specific "miles until empty"...(like a time-bomb!) and is more like looking at a gas tank gauge in an ICE car... you just really need to know when you're almost full, half empty, last quarter... etc. You know you need to shop around for a charge when you're 25%, say. Just like you would have gone to a gas station in the last quarter of a tank.
2. % SOC is more accurate measurement than estimated range. It's just sampling the battery only. Not your driving patterns.
3. don't use ideal range, it's like expecting your car's EPA sticker amount to come true for every trip.. It will not. Because those were ideal controlled tests.
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@scottm, Your stuff is not true. The rated miles number does not do anything at all that is related to anyone's driving patterns. It is a direct translation of the % number by a fixed rate constant, so it is exactly the same amount of accuracy. If you want to be technical, it would have MORE precision available, because it's using a scale of about 0 to 250 instead of only 0 to 100, so there would be less rounding off in the rated miles number.
Oh, I stand corrected then. I thought *ideal* range was that simple translation to some fantasy metric of consumption and rated range (I called it estimated range) accommodated for actual driving distances expected under currently sampled conditions based on past experiences (e.g. learning).
Anyway, I set my display on % SOC years ago and haven't looked back. I like it because for sure it's only looking at the battery and trying to determine what charge is left.
Here's the thing: How I use the charge is up to me. How far I go depends mostly on how I drive and ambient temperature. I only get concerned when (I navigate) my round trip says I'll need more than 2/3 of what I've got left to make the trip. e.g. got 30%, trip says I'll use 20% round trip, leaving 10% round trip.. fine. Depart. Safe to charge at home upon return. That's my "commuter rule of thumb". My highway trip follows different rules: charge every time on every leg, because my SC are spaced out quite far.
Both of the distance estimate settings are always wrong and tick by faster than "they should", and tick by faster than SOC, which is like a promise (hope) broken every time and amplifies the awareness of depletion... which is a mental setup for inducing more anxiety.
SOC never lies. Or at least, it tries hard not to.. and doesn't "project" on your behalf. This is my point.
I would probably be happy with a battery gauge on the dash that was simply marked off in 8ths and didn't show down to the 1% resolution. Yet, everywhere else in the software and navigation etc.. did show increments of 1%..
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Xenius
Active Member
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't say learning, but it does fluctuate, and within reason. The estimation is really what I was referring to.
Poke around on the center console, hit the little car "controls" in the lower left, then maybe under the settings tab, units and measures.. or something like that. You can also find the car's user manual online in there too, which is pretty handy.. and they try to keep it up-to-date. It's the thing that tells you everything you need to know, but nobody reads 
hacer
Active Member
I assume you don't really mean "full charge", as 220 would be pretty low for a new car, and you're not supposed to do 100% charge unless you are about to take a long drive. Especially for less than 100% charge there is variability in the rated range calculation which depends on many factors (but NOT on your driving behavior). For example the battery temperature affects this value. Below 100% some factors have to be estimated by the battery gauge which leads to greater variability.
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Ideal and rated just use two different rate constants. The EPA changed their gas mileage procedures to make them more harsh (realistic). The "ideal miles" constant was I think for the old system, and when the EPA changed their procedures, Tesla adjusted with the "rated miles" rate constant for the new rating system.
I've heard that from some people, but it's two sides of the coin. You don't worry about it because you also don't get any useful information from it. Humans don't think in terms of: "It's XX% to work." or "It's XX% to my friend's house and back." We think of distances in distance measurements.
I see that you feel violated and lied to if the "rated miles" don't tick off 1 to 1 with the real miles driven, and that upsets or offends you, but as a wise person once said:
You just mentioned there that it's all going to be variable with how you drive and changing conditions, so why do you perceive rated miles as some inviolate promise? It's still just a measure of how full the battery is, converted to some other units, not a prediction of the future.
I'm not trying to get you to do anything differently, but just to help you understand why using rated miles doesn't have to equal offense at broken promises or anxiety. It's not that big a deal to just realize that the rated number is going to be slightly higher than real when you use it.
It's in settings, units and measurements, and it's the one where you choose between displaying "Energy" or "Distance". That will change the display to %, and it will also list things differently on the charging screen. Instead of the miles per hour charging speed, it will just show the kW power and kWh of energy added.
It's set that only it charges up to 90%. All the comparisons are made at that level when charging is done.
This is not a Tesla thing, or EV only thing... heck my Subaru has a fantasy "distance until refueling" meter on it... The distance has always been laughable. Might help sell the car on its first test drive... wow! I get 880km on a tank!! Useless after that. Can't do 600.
Of course, Subaru also has a gas tank gauge... so I NEVER look at the fantasy meter (ideal range / rated range) unless I need a chuckle. There's no point. I look at the gas gauge... and judge if I need to stop for gas soon. If I drove depending on the distance gauge only with the Subaru I would constantly be pulling up 50km short of the next gas station on the highway.. ()*!@#$
Same goes for my model S. Anything that ticks down faster than reality is misinforming. I'm not going to be doing mental math by multiplying by some "correction" factor to arrive at a reasonable translation of what is really meant by the distance remaining.
That's why I like % SOC. It's real. It's now. It's not projecting anybody else's map of what might be meant in attainable distance. After 3 years I know how far I can go on what % SOC in familiar territory. And when I'm not, I find using Nav for trips always has reported % SOC estimates for the trip, and its estimate is pretty darn good at getting it right. No translation required. You can see on the dash what % you've got. Good to go.
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