FSD discussion

[Knightshade]

In the first example(chuck driving through intersection) I said it was possible to aim the car 45°. Then I say 20° is enough(based on the sensor array).

Please show the math that 20 degrees is enough.

Then I gave an image example of a ~30° with lots of room to spare from the manoeuvre.

Without acrtually having any labels of angle, vehicle size, or lane size, on the image.

The lane the car NOT blocking traffic is in appears massively wider than is typical however so it's a poor example (like so big you could easily put a second car in the same lane next to it with room to spare)

You still want to argue that there was no possibility to turn right with the rear side camera covering the traffic from the left in the situation with chuck?

I will quote you from the main thread.

Yes- because Chucks lane wasn't like 20 feet wide.

You also ignored my question of how you get from totally straight (to be able to move forward behind a lead car) to a 30 degree angle, in 1 car length (though now you've moved the goalposts down to 20 since I mentioned the issue without, again proving the actual angle needed)

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772301960806343093

Not sure if true - free FSD rides.

 

[Knightshade]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772301960806343093

Not sure if true - free FSD rides.

Honestly seems kinda desperate as a way to try and upsell them on the spot to make ER look less bad going forward.... If Elon thought it was that great that it sells itself beyond one curated demo drive he'd instead of giving delivery folks more work just issue a memo to give everyone taking new delivery 1 free month of FSD subscripiton.

 

[tivoboy]

Honestly seems kinda desperate as a way to try and upsell them on the spot to make ER look less bad going forward.... If Elon thought it was that great that it sells itself beyond one curated demo drive he'd instead of giving delivery folks more work just issue a memo to give everyone taking new delivery 1 free month of FSD subscripiton.

Might also be less of a marketing or advertising objective and more about making customers AWARE of what FSD IS and IS NOT.. hands on wheel, always attention and ready to take over.. not a complete fire and forget autonomous driving system. This MIGHT have been something that came out of the NHTSA/DOT judgment several months ago where Tesla has to temper customer expectations and understanding of what FSD can and CANNOT do. Who knows.

 

[Tingumr]

impressive creeping behaviour to view around obstacles by FSD 12.3.

 

[drtimhill]

Should Tesla try solving India driving or should Indian Govt standardize to better traffic rules?
L5 on US can happen without needing to solve all the extreme cases in ROW. cheers!!

Having driven in India a few times (and been driven by Indian drivers), my experience is that the only rule you need is "drive fast into whatever empty space you can see while honking the horn a lot". Should be easy to program into FSD

 

[tivoboy]

Having driven in India a few times (and been driven by Indian drivers), my experience is that the only rule you need is "drive fast into whatever empty space you can see while honking the horn a lot". Should be easy to program into FSD

Indian driving can be summed up by a quote from one of the greatest movies of all time.. “the hard part about playing chicken, is knowing when to flinch”
“Right full rudder, 30 degree down angle”

 

[heltok]

You also ignored my question of how you get from totally straight (to be able to move forward behind a lead car) to a 30 degree angle, in 1 car length (though now you've moved the goalposts down to 20 since I mentioned the issue without, again proving the actual angle needed)

The Tesla Model Y is a compact SUV, and its turning ability can vary based on factors like the model year, specific trim, and optional features. However, I can provide a rough estimate based on typical dimensions and turning radius of compact SUVs.

Let's assume a turning radius of around 18 feet for the Tesla Model Y, which is within the range of compact SUVs.

Given that the length of a Tesla Model Y is approximately 15 feet, we can calculate the angle turned in one car length using a similar method as before:

1. First, let's calculate the circumference of the turning circle:

Circumference = 2π × Radius

Circumference ≈ 2 × 3.14 × 18 ≈ 113.04 feet

2. Now, let's find out how many times the car length fits into this circumference:

Number of car lengths = Circumference / Car length

Number of car lengths ≈ 113.04 feet / 15 feet ≈ 7.536 car lengths

3. Finally, let's convert this into degrees:

Angle = 360 / Number of car lengths

Angle ≈ 360 degrees / 7.536 ≈ 47.7 degrees

So, for a Tesla Model Y with the assumed dimensions and turning radius, you can estimate turning approximately 47.7 degrees within one car length under ideal conditions. As always, actual performance may vary based on factors such as speed, road conditions, and the specific characteristics of the vehicle.

 

[Knightshade]

The Tesla Model Y is a compact SUV, and its turning ability can vary based on factors like the model year, specific trim, and optional features. However, I can provide a rough estimate based on typical dimensions and turning radius of compact SUVs.

Let's assume a turning radius of around 18 feet for the Tesla Model Y, which is within the range of compact SUVs.. .....So, for a Tesla Model Y with the assumed dimensions and turning radius, you can estimate turning approximately 47.7 degrees within one car length

OR.... we could use the actual known specification for Model Y turning radius.

2023 Tesla Model Y Review, Pricing, and Specs

Whereas the Model 3 nails its mission with impressive handling and range, the 2023 Model Y feels like a lazy effort to appeal to the SUV-buying public.

www.caranddriver.com

Turning Diameter / Radius, curb to curb (feet)
39.8.

And of course turning radius is the minimum dimension of available space required for that vehicle to make a semi-circular U-turn.

Which is 180 degrees, not 360.

And of course it's not turning in place because it can't do a tank turn.

See below for a picture of what an actual curb to curb turning circle looks like-

Want to try that again?

 

[heltok]

OR.... we could use the actual known specification for Model Y turning radius.

Which is hilariously more than you claim.

2023 Tesla Model Y Review, Pricing, and Specs

Whereas the Model 3 nails its mission with impressive handling and range, the 2023 Model Y feels like a lazy effort to appeal to the SUV-buying public.

www.caranddriver.com

And of course turning radius is the minimum dimension (typically the radius or diameter, respectively) of available space required for that vehicle to make a semi-circular U-turn. Which is 180 degrees, not 360.


Want to try that again?

Thank you for providing the turning diameter for the Tesla Model Y. With a turning diameter of 39.8 feet, we can calculate the turning radius, and from there, estimate how many degrees you can turn in one car length.

The turning diameter is twice the turning radius. So, to find the radius:

Turning radius = Turning diameter / 2Turning radius = 39.8 feet / 2Turning radius ≈ 19.9 feet

Now, we can proceed with the estimation:

1. First, let's calculate the circumference of the turning circle:
   Circumference = 2π × Radius
   Circumference ≈ 2 × 3.14 × 19.9 ≈ 125.13 feet
2. Now, let's find out how many times the car length fits into this circumference:
   Number of car lengths = Circumference / Car length
   Number of car lengths ≈ 125.13 feet / 15 feet ≈ 8.342 car lengths
3. Finally, let's convert this into degrees:
   Angle = 360 / Number of car lengths
   Angle ≈ 360 degrees / 8.342 ≈ 43.1 degrees

So, for a Tesla Model Y with the provided turning diameter, you can estimate turning approximately 43.1 degrees within one car length under ideal conditions.

 

[Knightshade]

Thank you for providing the turning diameter for the Tesla Model Y. With a turning diameter of 39.8 feet, we can calculate the turning radius, and from there, estimate how many degrees you can turn in one car length.

The turning diameter is twice the turning radius. So, to find the radius:

Turning radius = Turning diameter / 2Turning radius = 39.8 feet / 2Turning radius ≈ 19.9 feet

Now, we can proceed with the estimation:

1. First, let's calculate the circumference of the turning circle:
   Circumference = 2π × Radius
   Circumference ≈ 2 × 3.14 × 19.9 ≈ 125.13 feet
2. Now, let's find out how many times the car length fits into this circumference:
   Number of car lengths = Circumference / Car length
   Number of car lengths ≈ 125.13 feet / 15 feet ≈ 8.342 car lengths
3. Finally, let's convert this into degrees:
   Angle = 360 / Number of car lengths
   Angle ≈ 360 degrees / 8.342 ≈ 43.1 degrees

So, for a Tesla Model Y with the provided turning diameter, you can estimate turning approximately 43.1 degrees within one car length under ideal conditions.

I guess you missed a turning circle is a 180 degree turn, not 360 degrees?

Also the car is longer than 15 feet. 15.5833 feet specifically.

This is like the 6th time in the thread it seems your google doesn't work and someone has to spoon feed you easily found data.

So it's only 8.0297 car lengths, over 180 degrees, which is 22.46 degrees per car length.

And again that's FULL TURN LOCK in ideal conditions.

It also ignores if a 15.5833 foot long vehicle, turned at 22.46 degrees, would be impeding on adjacent lanes given some local road lanes are as narrow as 9 feet wide.

 

[heltok]

Ok, I give up. You will never admit that you are wrong because you are always right. I tried but it was not enough. We have established that It's impossible to turn a car even close to 45degrees in 1 car length, parallell parking is pretty much impossible, knightshades math proves this. Tesla FSD will never work, knightshades b-pillar problem is impossible to solve even with three right hand turns. It will be a huge lawsuite when all the FSD owners sue Tesla for their false promises. Elon, Ashok, Karpathy and the rest of the FSD team including all the test drivers out at the Chuck turn missed this one issue. TSLA ngmi.

 

[Knightshade]

Ok, I give up. You will never admit that you are wrong because you are always right.

I mean, I know the difference between a 180 degree turn and a 360 degree turn--- as well as the actual specs of the vehicle, so yes- I've been literally right and you've been literally wrong about even fundamental math and specs-- let alone the ramifications for them regarding self driving.

And it's not like this was even originally my idea- Chuck Cook has been raising this issue for years now... same dude who after many many attempts at sending test drivers to his actual location they still haven't perfected his UPL.... and who has both been a carrier based Naval Aviator, an Aeronautical Engineer, and is currently the Director of Communications, Navigation, Surveillance & Technical Programs at Jetblue. So it's not like the idea comes from someone who also doesn't know the difference between 180 degrees and 360 degrees.

We have established that It's impossible to turn a car even close to 45degrees in 1 car length, parallell parking is pretty much impossible, knightshades math proves this. Tesla FSD will never work, knightshades b-pillar problem is impossible to solve even with three right hand turns. It will be a huge lawsuite when all the FSD owners sue Tesla for their false promises. Elon, Ashok, Karpathy and the rest of the FSD team including all the test drivers out at the Chuck turn missed this one issue. TSLA ngmi.

Well, on the bright side while you seem to be lacking in basic research and math skills you're excellent at drama

Since you mention Elon, Ashok, and Chuck though- you might find this recent exchange interesting-

 

[Buckminster]

FYI. Really pushing FSD.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772430031450427556

Alll US cars capable of FSD to get one month free trial

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772444422971494838

Looks like 12.3.2 will merge into the 2024 package. And I bet the .2 is just for this purpose vs .1 rolling out now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772424848939119007

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772478824468385934

Rohan update on FSD trial

 

[heltok]

Mods are deleting my posts, guess they want this discussion to end so I will not reply here anymore.

Mod: This is correct. I also deleted your "last words" because they just continue the argument that I've asked you two to stop, now for the third time. I (as mod) don't care about the correct answer, I care about the tone of the argument and the name calling. --ggr

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773882855762047301

Emulator

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1774291526518178001

12.3.3 rolling out

https://twitter.com/x/status/1774302983892943176

 

[elasalle]

tweets like this are getting more and more frequent ..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1775691780597625220

 

[Electroman]

Turned on FSD yesterday, and went for several drives. Very smooth overall. Smooth turns, very smooth lane changes. I had no lane choice problems at all. Quite adept in navigating parking lots to reach the front of big box stores. Very impressed.

Where it fell short:

- Unsupervised left turns over 3 lanes (Chuck Cook type turns) did not do well at all. It waited forever for all 6 lanes to clear, and then loses patience and starts moving forward just at the wrong time.

- Taking a right turn when the visibility is obstructed seems iffy. When the entire road is empty it just waits and then starts to move forward when there is car coming over.

I believe the current version, the way it is, for me is worth $200 a month. I will keep using it and decide at the end of the trial.