Front End... Hmmmmmm

[eisbock]

I was trying to find this picture earlier. In this picture you can clearly see that all three models have a very similar upturned nose. I thing the mustache hides it somewhat on the S and X.

Dan

There was some discussion back when the 3 was first revealed and somebody shopped the grill off the X and it does indeed look similar to the 3. It actually looks worse because there is so much more body which translates to more empty nothingness. The pig snout on the 3 is passable because the frontal area is so small. All three cars have the same frontal shape, just differences in the grill.

Honestly, we all should have seen this coming. The S had a round nose cone with the distinctive Tesla T stache on top. The X literally kept the same exact stache design and just removed the oval bottom part. It should have been fairly obvious that the next logical step was to remove the stache!

Frankly, I'm super curious to see what the Y looks like!

 

[eisbock]

After seeing the picture of all three models side by side it is obvious to me that this is a design choice that serves a purpose...I would suspect drastically improving drag coefficients. Since all three models share this characteristic.

Dan

I would be interested in what the new drag coefficient of the S is now that the main grill is gone, maybe to more than two decimal places. If it truly is in fact lower, then there might be some merit to the whole "duck nose reduces drag" thing, because while the S had a "grill", it was rounded aerodynamically.

The problem is we don't have any real data that suggests the differences in nose really means that much toward the drag coefficient. It's obvious that the rest of the car is extremely aerodynamic and this may be what's driving the drag down drastically, not so much the front end. If we could see the drag between an S with the original nosecone, stache, and no stache, then we might be onto something other than speculation.

Then round the front of the S like the Saleen and see how that drag coefficient compares.

Plus, we don't even know what the drag coefficient of the 3 is. All we have is Elon's vague "We're aiming for .21" statement. That doesn't tell us what it is now.

Everything about science and physics tells us that the above pictured Saleen nose would be more aerodynamic than the 3 nose. Hell, even the company that created the flow vis software Tesla uses is questioning the duck bill! They speculated as to why it might be better, but that is not science, it's trying to justify an unconventional design with zero data to back it up!

 

[Garlan Garner]

I would be interested in what the new drag coefficient of the S is now that the main grill is gone, maybe to more than two decimal places. If it truly is in fact lower, then there might be some merit to the whole "duck nose reduces drag" thing, because while the S had a "grill", it was rounded aerodynamically.

The problem is we don't have any real data that suggests the differences in nose really means that much toward the drag coefficient. It's obvious that the rest of the car is extremely aerodynamic and this may be what's driving the drag down drastically, not so much the front end. If we could see the drag between an S with the original nosecone, stache, and no stache, then we might be onto something other than speculation.

Then round the front of the S like the Saleen and see how that drag coefficient compares.

Plus, we don't even know what the drag coefficient of the 3 is. All we have is Elon's vague "We're aiming for .21" statement. That doesn't tell us what it is now.

Everything about science and physics tells us that the above pictured Saleen nose would be more aerodynamic than the 3 nose. Hell, even the company that created the flow vis software Tesla uses is questioning the duck bill! They speculated as to why it might be better, but that is not science, it's trying to justify an unconventional design with zero data to back it up!

Excellent - For all of the "ANTI GRILL" folks - How is this?

 

[arjay]

Excellent - For all of the "ANTI GRILL" folks - How is this?

While I am among the ANTI GRILLE folks, I certainly would like to see a more graceful job of sculpting the nose. Integrating the Tesla blunt nose by manipulating the adjacent crease lines and incorporating a front license plate mount might make the visual bluntness seem more logical.

 

[Garlan Garner]

While I am among the ANTI GRILLE folks, I certainly would like to see a more graceful job of sculpting the nose. Integrating the Tesla blunt nose by manipulating the adjacent crease lines and incorporating a front license plate mount might make the visual bluntness seem more logical.

+1

 

[Red Sage]

One man's wedge is another man's hammer, I guess. What you guys call a 'blunt' nose has sharply defined creases to my eye.

 

[James Anders]

Blunt nose means that the center "wide license plate" area is flat and nearly perpendicular to the flow of incoming air. Has nothing to do with grilles or creases. Whether you want to call the fix, Porsche-Like or Corvette-Like is fine.

Unlike the Saleen example the Model 3 prototype has an abrupt flat area. Interestingly enough the new Model S nose tweak seems to flow much better to my eye. Certainly much better than the current Model X too. If the tweaks that Elon spoke about bring the production Model 3 into line with the Model S refresh, all will be fine, IMO.

 

[Red Sage]

A Porsche-like 'fix' would be UGLY... Like a Porsche.

A Corvette-like 'fix' would lengthen the nose, and thus the entire car, by 12" minimum and possibly 16"-18". That would add weight and ruin the cab-forward proportions of the car without need.

The front 'bumper' area is NOT flat. There is a concave curve to it. I expect the lower air dam will change a bit, especially under and around the parking lights. The nose will probably become more like the current Model S. Thereby including the elegant emblem holder on the front that you all refer to lovingly as a 'mustache'...

 

[Hayden]

It's going to be a dealbreaker for me if they use that stupid looking small grill/mustache from the S/X models.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

It's going to be a dealbreaker for me if they use that stupid looking small grill/mustache from the S/X models.

That's a shame. I am looking at is from a standpoint that Elon has stated that this car will have a ridiculous coefficient of drag to maximize range and efficiency and I seriously doubt they could afford to undermine that by doing anything to limit the coefficient purely for aesthetic purposes.

Whatever they decide to do, I am confident that it will be done for the betterment of the performance of the car. Unfortunate that those decisions may change your mind about the car, if they choose to adjust anything.

Dan

 

[James Anders]

A Porsche-like 'fix' would be UGLY... Like a Porsche.

A Corvette-like 'fix' would lengthen the nose, and thus the entire car, by 12" minimum and possibly 16"-18". That would add weight and ruin the cab-forward proportions of the car without need.

The front 'bumper' area is NOT flat. There is a concave curve to it. I expect the lower air dam will change a bit, especially under and around the parking lights. The nose will probably become more like the current Model S. Thereby including the elegant emblem holder on the front that you all refer to lovingly as a 'mustache'...

12 to 18 inches? No, I'm estimating from the photos that it would only take about 3-4 inches max. Basically what the Anders/Mirai Photoshop shows. There's no way that's 12 to 18 inches of added length.

 

[Garlan Garner]

It's going to be a dealbreaker for me if they use that stupid looking small grill/mustache from the S/X models.

That's too bad. Just wondering....Did you stand in line to put down your deposit? If so....where? I'm trying to figure out if I'm moving up in line.

 

[Red Sage]

View attachment 175593

12 to 18 inches? No, I'm estimating from the photos that it would only take about 3-4 inches max. Basically what the Anders/Mirai Photoshop shows. There's no way that's 12 to 18 inches of added length.

I originally really liked that Photoshop image. I agree, as shown there, it would only add about 3-4 inches to the overall length. This particular shape is closer to a Chevrolet design than a Porsche one, so I could accept it -- if it was a CHEVETTE.

But I believe someone had stated they didn't like the short hood, cab forward position of the Model ☰ design, saying it was 'unbalanced, unfinished, truncated' or something to that effect. They apparently would have preferred a more traditional profile that screams 'FRONT engine REAR wheel drive!' instead... From what they were saying, it seemed they would not be satisfied unless it were extended well past 4 inches.

Then I saw the 19-second 'In the Wild' video, along with a few others. Those are what convinced me that my initial reaction was due to the up-angle camera shots during the Model ☰ Reveal Part I. Also, notations from others here as well as at the Tesla Motors forums, noting there are minimum height requirements to meet pedestrian collision requirements in certain territories settled it for me. In this case, function wins over style.

 

[Hayden]

That's too bad. Just wondering....Did you stand in line to put down your deposit? If so....where? I'm trying to figure out if I'm moving up in line.

 

[arjay]

The more I see of the nose from recently available photos here, the more I think about emphasizing the flat shark nose by eliminating the creases under the headlights. Can any of you photoshop magicians give that a try? Also that shot of that new red MS with a license plate mount built-in/on would seem to diminish the Cd benefits.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Can you imagine if Henrik Fisker remained as head of design for Tesla? Model 3 might of looked like this:
View attachment 171634

Overall despite all the shortcomings FISKER designed one of the most beautiful 4 door cars ever produced.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Let me try this again:

I'm still liking the front end

 

[MissAutobahn]

Here's my rendition. Just took a simple tweak.

View attachment 170325

It'll end up like this at the reveal2, I think ( I hope so)

 

[Tiberius]

It'll end up like this at the reveal2, I think ( I hope so)

I agree.

ZOMBIE THREAD!!

 

[Jayc]

It'll end up like this at the reveal2, I think ( I hope so)

I really hope it does not end up like that. That would be a backwards move.