Fremantle Highway

[PITA]

The cargo ship that caught fire, with some ev's on it. The International Union of Marine Insurers (IUMI) is calling for a better understanding of electric vehicle (EV) fires and how they can be controlled.

The association said that although the fire has been linked to about 500 EVs onboard the ship the cause is yet to be determined.

It pointed out that while there has been a series of fires on car carriers none have been proven to have been started by an EV.

“IUMI understands that the transportation of EVs raises certain risks that are different to those involved in carrying internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEVs) but research suggests that the risks are not heightened or more dangerous,” IUMI said in a statement.

IUMI said that research carried out by the EU-led project Lashfire indicate that neither the growth rate of a fire nor the peak heat release rate or the total energy released during a fire is higher for an EV blaze than for that sparked by an ICEV.

Fremantle Highway blaze throws electric vehicle risk into sharp relief, say insurers

Underwriters call for better detection and extinguishing systems to prevent battery fires from spreading

www.tradewindsnews.com

 

[PITA]

Glad to see a rational open minded approach for once...

 

[UkNorthampton]

As soon as EVs were mentioned, people piled in with inaccurate info. Some thoughts

1. Plenty of used car carriers have been affected, no EVs on them, ditto new ICE-only ships.
2. I don't like pouch cells in cars, seems really daft engineering choice. Switch to LFP or cylinders.
3. A small amount of petrol/diesel has a huge amount of energy, way beyond batteries of EVs (even at 100kWh) - I would guess.
4. Once alight, a modern car has plenty of flammable bits.
5. Most fires in static ICE cars are from 12 volt systems & are FAR more common than EV fires on a % basis (search for BMW or Vauxhall fires)
6. 12 volts are meant to be disconnected (carrier rules/procedures) but reports that they aren't due to time constraints. Presumably other procedures aren't properly followed
7. More 12 volt ECUs (Electronic Control Systems) from a variety of different suppliers on a non-Tesla ICE or EV, arguably more potential for faults/fires than a centralised or zonal system.

 

[hgmichna]

They now write that 500 electric cars are at the lowest deck and essentially undamaged, along with lots of other cars on the decks below the empty deck 5.

Smoke may still have rendered all of these to a state where they cannot be sold as new.

 

[UkNorthampton]

They now write that 500 electric cars are at the lowest deck and essentially undamaged, along with lots of other cars on the decks below the empty deck 5.

Smoke may still have rendered all of these to a state where they cannot be sold as new.

Any articles you can point to?

 

[Mrklaw]

As soon as EVs were mentioned, people piled in with inaccurate info. Some thoughts

1. Plenty of used car carriers have been affected, no EVs on them, ditto new ICE-only ships.
2. I don't like pouch cells in cars, seems really daft engineering choice. Switch to LFP or cylinders.
3. A small amount of petrol/diesel has a huge amount of energy, way beyond batteries of EVs (even at 100kWh) - I would guess.
4. Once alight, a modern car has plenty of flammable bits.
5. Most fires in static ICE cars are from 12 volt systems & are FAR more common than EV fires on a % basis (search for BMW or Vauxhall fires)
6. 12 volts are meant to be disconnected (carrier rules/procedures) but reports that they aren't due to time constraints. Presumably other procedures aren't properly followed
7. More 12 volt ECUs (Electronic Control Systems) from a variety of different suppliers on a non-Tesla ICE or EV, arguably more potential for faults/fires than a centralised or zonal system.

aren’t cars supposed to be drained/have minimal fuel when transported? Whereas you can’t remove the battery so the potential energy is likely still higher in an EV even if not charged.

EVs have 12v systems and flammable internals too - will they be as susceptible to 12v as ignition source or is that also linked to fuel as ignition?

 

[UkNorthampton]

aren’t cars supposed to be drained/have minimal fuel when transported? Whereas you can’t remove the battery so the potential energy is likely still higher in an EV even if not charged.

EVs have 12v systems and flammable internals too - will they be as susceptible to 12v as ignition source or is that also linked to fuel as ignition?

I don't know about fuel levels on NEW cars, but used ones aren't drained according to a shipping video I saw, making them more dangerous than new ones according to the person.

You'd need some fuel in a car to drive onto the ship. You wouldn't want it to have so little that it can't be moved around in storage areas or final delivery. I'd guess the answer is that they have more than minimal fuel.

Emptier fuel tanks are meant to be more dangerous than full ones as fuel/air can mix (to the point of explosive/detonation rather than burning maybe).

I remember a video where they specifically talked about 12 volt systems, fuel tank vulnerabilities and the huge energy in fuel. I just can't remember much of it.

I'm guessing here, but I can see a fuel tank/fuel line/leaky connectors/fuel vapour buildup (so fuel tank to engine plus leaks of liquid & venting of vapourised fuel) being more vulnerable to an electrical fault, ship equipment (one company seems particularly prone) or hot part of an engine/exhaust (I think some occur in ports shortly after loading). One loose connection and fuel might leak & pool somewhere, even away from the car near to ship equipment. Pooled fuel might be ok until a ship hits weather - then the fuel flows somewhere more dangerous.

High-voltage batteries could be a source of ignition (principally high-energy nickel-based pouch cells), but I think are less likely to "burn" from an initial 12 volt fault (unless the rest of the car is already on fire). Otherwise ICE seem more likely to catch fire from a smaller event.

Hot temperatures, unventilated decks, vapourised fuel might be worth looking at for a pattern. Static/lightning? Obviously fuel more likely to ignite than protected high-voltage batteries.

 

[hgmichna]

Any articles you can point to?

Only in German. Here is an automated translation into English:

"Teil der Decks ist mit den Autos verschmolzen"

Mehrere Tage steht die "Fremantle Highway" vor der niederländischen Nordseeküste in Flammen. Ein Großteil der auf dem Frachter geladenen Fahrzeuge wird zerstört, eine Bergung ist ausgeschlossen. Auch der Abtransport der unbeschädigten Autos gestaltet sich schwierig.

www-n--tv-de.translate.goog

And this is the original article in German:

"Teil der Decks ist mit den Autos verschmolzen"

Mehrere Tage steht die "Fremantle Highway" vor der niederländischen Nordseeküste in Flammen. Ein Großteil der auf dem Frachter geladenen Fahrzeuge wird zerstört, eine Bergung ist ausgeschlossen. Auch der Abtransport der unbeschädigten Autos gestaltet sich schwierig.

www.n-tv.de

 

[PITA]

Only in German. Here is an automated translation into English:

"Teil der Decks ist mit den Autos verschmolzen"

Mehrere Tage steht die "Fremantle Highway" vor der niederländischen Nordseeküste in Flammen. Ein Großteil der auf dem Frachter geladenen Fahrzeuge wird zerstört, eine Bergung ist ausgeschlossen. Auch der Abtransport der unbeschädigten Autos gestaltet sich schwierig.

www-n--tv-de.translate.goog

And this is the original article in German:

"Teil der Decks ist mit den Autos verschmolzen"

Mehrere Tage steht die "Fremantle Highway" vor der niederländischen Nordseeküste in Flammen. Ein Großteil der auf dem Frachter geladenen Fahrzeuge wird zerstört, eine Bergung ist ausgeschlossen. Auch der Abtransport der unbeschädigten Autos gestaltet sich schwierig.

www.n-tv.de

The inspection has now revealed that the lower 4 of the 12 decks are largely undamaged. At first glance, about 1,000 cars, including 500 electric ones, are in good condition, said Berdowski.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

Maybe another insurance scam, like the ship carrying VW’s to the states. They knew the software was dodgy.
Big companies like Apple have pulled stunts like that in the past, instead selling a poorly designed laptop at a discount, the warehouse was destroyed by a plane crash.

 

[ACarneiro]

Maybe another insurance scam, like the ship carrying VW’s to the states. They knew the software was dodgy.
Big companies like Apple have pulled stunts like that in the past, instead selling a poorly designed laptop at a discount, the warehouse was destroyed by a plane crash.

Them’s mighty big accusations there… what evidence do you have to back your claims?

 

[Pants]

Maybe another insurance scam, like the ship carrying VW’s to the states. They knew the software was dodgy.
Big companies like Apple have pulled stunts like that in the past, instead selling a poorly designed laptop at a discount, the warehouse was destroyed by a plane crash.

I’d also like some evidence. Conspiracy theories are easy to create.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

VW admitted to sending out cars that they knew had software issues and wanted to make their delivery figures look good.
Plenty of YouTube videos of ID3s being dragged on to recovery vehicles, due software shutdowns.

 

[Pants]

VW admitted to sending out cars that they knew had software issues and wanted to make their delivery figures look good.
Plenty of YouTube videos of ID3s being dragged on to recovery vehicles, due software shutdowns.

Yes, VW issues are well documented but that’s not quite on the same level as crashing a plane into a warehouse because of a poorly designed laptop. Evidence?

 

[Buzzliteyear]

Yes, VW issues are well documented but that’s not quite on the same level as crashing a plane into a warehouse because of a poorly designed laptop. Evidence?

i no longer have the old computer marines from the 1980s, maybe not one of the best events to use.

there are other events from the same timeframe

 

[GRiLLA]

I do think that the pro-EV commentators are jumping on some rather dubious statements as facts to claim this fire wasn't to do with BEVs, just as anti-EVs also did to decide they were to blame. Best to wait for some more sensible evidence.

Engine and Kitchen should be the most likely suspects, powered off vehicles must be very unlikely to spontaneously combust.

 

[GlynG]

I'm rather surprised the ship owners don't know what started the fires, surely the installation of CCTV across all decks would nail the specific cause of the fire, could it be an employee or indeed something to do with the ship rather than its cargo.
It all sounds like the cargo hold once loaded is something forgotten about until docking

 

[PITA]

Best to wait for some more sensible evidence.

It wasn’t an EV that caused the ‘Fremantle Highway’ to catch fire.

Even though the cause of the fire is still unknown, the EV theory no longer holds up after the freighter was inspected.

The lower four of the twelve decks are essentially undamaged, and about 1,000 cars, including the 498 electric ones, are in good condition.

This is according to the chief of salvage company Royal Boskalis Westminster NV, Peter Berdowski.

It wasn’t an EV that caused the ‘Fremantle Highway’ to catch fire | electrive.com

www.electrive.com

 

[Drew57]

The lower four of the twelve decks are essentially undamaged, and about 1,000 cars, including the 498 electric ones, are in good condition.

I can see the likely headlines.....

 

[PITA]

I can see the likely headlines.....

View attachment 964832

More likely sparks from a heated argument on crew deck about Ev's started the fire...