False Advertising - 2014 S60

[Zythryn]

There is a current thread where someone was worried about a similar thing on his P85 and a few cycles from full to under 10% let the computer recalculate range.

Far as service I suspect it is HIGHLY specific to individual centers and people. I am probably 3 hours from Chicago center but choose to drive 5 hours to Minneapolis whom my limited dealings with have been great so far though I was disappointed to try and call them today and be bounced to call center and when I called the woman out on it she said she is dedicated to the Minneapolis Center but couldn't pronounce Minneapolis right(not an accent just wrong). Last year when I called to schedule annual service I spoke to someone I later met in person because he worked there.

Somewhere like Chicago I am sure they have all the customers they can handle without having to make anyone happy. Probably have to deal with a fair number of entitled jerks too, this all plays into the service experience of the next guy.

I don't like the call center thing but it is a cost saver, hopefully it just happened because a bunch of folks were enjoying a long holiday weekend.

The call center is new, and Tesla is currently working out the kinks in the system.
When it works the way it is supposed to, it is far more efficient, speedy, and gets your car fixed faster.
Unfortunately, it is a big shift, so odd things can happen. I’ve had very good luck with it, I know of others that have not. It is the direction we are moving though.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Yes it is supercharged enabled.... I can’t recall... I’ll stop by a Supercharger tonight ... take a pick and upload it. In the meantime ... this what my screen looks like when fully charged.View attachment 314865

Thank you for being helpful... much appreciated

It's possible that your pack has one or more failed battery modules. This is not something that would be reported in the logs, Tesla would have to specifically look for this. Often owners get dismissed with their battery concerns and have to push back and insist that the function of the battery modules be checked.

 

[Lanber]

If one block fails it will trigger fault and you cant charge the battery. Dont know how much difference is allowed between blocks but when my 85 battery went one block went from 3.9V to 3.5V, that got me a "pull over safely car is shutting down"

The way the battery measures capacity is not an exact science and when you dont deep discharge, that is going to 0 and beyond and charging back up to 100% the car has to guess what`s left at a certain voltage.
On my car, the previous battery, it was spot on in guessing.

Just be carefull when deep discharging, the powerlimiter is the telling tale. Once you hit 30/40kw limit you are kissing the bottom as the car will stop at any time when you get to 20/15kw limiter. Likely this is 2-3kwh below 0 range.

If this dosent help, then sadly the 60kwh battery is performing below average.
Same with any petrol engine, they dont always perfrom to specs, they are all slightly different.

On a very different note there was one Norwegian with nick "Muffinman" who had 2 bad modules in his 85 battery, dont know how that ended. Think it may have been a computer problem.

 

[Rocky_H]

If one block fails it will trigger fault and you cant charge the battery. Dont know how much difference is allowed between blocks but when my 85 battery went one block went from 3.9V to 3.5V, that got me a "pull over safely car is shutting down"

You are the first person I have ever heard of with it happening that way. From the other Tesla forum at Tesla's site, the few people I've seen who did have a block go bad had no shutdown and no error messages of any kind. The car still ran and drove normally. The symptom showed up as a sudden overnight disappearance of about twenty-some miles off their displayed range.

 

[ACA Man]

Mine lost about 35 miles in 48 hours.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...From what I can gather, as far as the MS60 is concerned, quite a few 2014 cars got the degradation problem.

That is my impression as well, although it is just based on anecdotal reports here, so subject to reporting bias. Nevertheless, there are a lot more 85s out there and how often do you hear about them being down 10% or 20%?

My 2014 S60 seemed to be down 12% or so and when I reported it to the SC they did a remote check and said everything checked out. They suggested that I change my charging patterns (I was mostly charging to 70% at the time). Sound familiar? I did change my charging on a long road trip and it had little effect. Eventually the car seemed to settle on ~186 miles total range — it is hard for me to check because charging to 100% is impractical in the mountains where I live since I need regen to descend steep grades (even 90% limits regen, especially in cool weather). There it seems to have remained for the last year or more. Unlike with your greater degradation, that's enough for me to do my road trips if I am careful on longer trip legs, so I stopped worrying about it. I now have 53k miles on the car.

My hypothesis was that my extensive use of Supercharging might have caused extra degradation, since most of my miles are long road trips and I've Supercharged 199 times. However, with the reports of others with S60s that have large degradation, perhaps it really is something to do with how Tesla manages the 60 packs and not my usage profile. I guess I'm really lucky my car is only down 10%, for now, and that Tesla is filling in the Supercharger network to make the longer trip legs disappear.

 

[ACA Man]

That is my impression as well, although it is just based on anecdotal reports here, so subject to reporting bias. Nevertheless, there are a lot more 85s out there and how often do you hear about them being down 10% or 20%?

My 2014 S60 seemed to be down 12% or so and when I reported it to the SC they did a remote check and said everything checked out. They suggested that I change my charging patterns (I was mostly charging to 70% at the time). Sound familiar? I did change my charging on a long road trip and it had little effect. Eventually the car seemed to settle on ~186 miles total range — it is hard for me to check because charging to 100% is impractical in the mountains where I live since I need regen to descend steep grades (even 90% limits regen, especially in cool weather). There it seems to have remained for the last year or more. Unlike with your greater degradation, that's enough for me to do my road trips if I am careful on longer trip legs, so I stopped worrying about it. I now have 53k miles on the car.

My hypothesis was that my extensive use of Supercharging might have caused extra degradation, since most of my miles are long road trips and I've Supercharged 199 times. However, with the reports of others with S60s that have large degradation, perhaps it really is something to do with how Tesla manages the 60 packs and not my usage profile. I guess I'm really lucky my car is only down 10%, for now, and that Tesla is filling in the Supercharger network to make the longer trip legs disappear.

I think they, Tesla, read from the same script when it comes to degradation.

My guess is something is not quite right with the 60 pack, especially 2014 and thus they went to 75 limited to 60 instead.
There is more than 5 cases that I know of with the more or less degradation situation.

All along they said my battery is normal and yet, not one of them were able to explain to me the cause for severe degradation.
Tesla may just be in for a rude awakening one of these days.

 

[asim120]

That is my impression as well, although it is just based on anecdotal reports here, so subject to reporting bias. Nevertheless, there are a lot more 85s out there and how often do you hear about them being down 10% or 20%?

My 2014 S60 seemed to be down 12% or so and when I reported it to the SC they did a remote check and said everything checked out. They suggested that I change my charging patterns (I was mostly charging to 70% at the time). Sound familiar? I did change my charging on a long road trip and it had little effect. Eventually the car seemed to settle on ~186 miles total range — it is hard for me to check because charging to 100% is impractical in the mountains where I live since I need regen to descend steep grades (even 90% limits regen, especially in cool weather). There it seems to have remained for the last year or more. Unlike with your greater degradation, that's enough for me to do my road trips if I am careful on longer trip legs, so I stopped worrying about it. I now have 53k miles on the car.

My hypothesis was that my extensive use of Supercharging might have caused extra degradation, since most of my miles are long road trips and I've Supercharged 199 times. However, with the reports of others with S60s that have large degradation, perhaps it really is something to do with how Tesla manages the 60 packs and not my usage profile. I guess I'm really lucky my car is only down 10%, for now, and that Tesla is filling in the Supercharger network to make the longer trip legs disappear.

I've shared my similar story on several of these S 60 threads. About two years ago, my 60 was down to 154 rated miles at 100%. I was charging to 70% at the time because I have a short commute. I floated between 55-70% and only supercharged a few times. I never kept my battery sitting over 90% SOC for more than a few moments prior to the occasional 100 mile round trip to visit family. The service center insisted repeatedly and dismissively nothing was wrong with my car. They blamed "the algorithm"--their algorithm--and told me to charge to 85-90% daily.

Over the following year, my rated range gradually increased to 180 miles and then plateaued there. A few months ago, I brought my car for its 4th year service visit and it passed with flying colors--the service folks reported no problems with the battery at all. What about the 12% degradation? "Normal." "Battery checks out fine."

So, based on multiple Tesla employees over the past few years, 12% degradation is normal.

 

[Rocky_H]

My guess is something is not quite right with the 60 pack, especially 2014 and thus they went to 75 limited to 60 instead.
There is more than 5 cases that I know of with the more or less degradation situation.

But from the 2012 to 2014 time period when they were offering the original 60kWh and 85kWh packs, they were the same battery formulation--just with different numbers of cells to make up the different total capacities.

Nevertheless, there are a lot more 85s out there and how often do you hear about them being down 10% or 20%?

And my theory is that it's more related to the usage. Because the 60 packs have such smaller range, people need to normally keep charging and using them from their 90% charged level to have the amount of range they need for normal use, so they get stressed harder with the high charge level all the time. But the 85 packs, with more range available, probably led people to use a lower daily charge limit of 70% or 80%. I know I've never kept my daily charge level higher than 80% since I got it in early 2014.

 

[MP3Mike]

But from the 2012 to 2014 time period when they were offering the original 60kWh and 85kWh packs, they were the same battery formulation--just with different numbers of cells to make up the different total capacities.

Yep, and what might be causing the issue is that they reduced the number of cells in the modules. (Fewer cells in parallel) Thus putting more stress/demand on the individual cells. The next change was to the Model S 70, in which all they did was use the exact same modules as the 85. (Still the same number of modules as in the 60, just fully populated with cells.)