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Another perhaps surprisingly US/nationalistic post from Elon. He seems to be going all #MAGA on this:

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Here's the difference: Trump is a jingoist: He thinks America is morally superior and other nations are morally inferior. He has an "us vs. them" mentality. He preaches bigotry and intolerance. His idea of making America great is to exclude the immigrants that made America great in the first place. He is also a science denier, which is a separate issue, but means his policies are based on magical thinking rather than on reality. He wants to take jobs back from other countries that he feels they "stole" from us, even though it was American businessmen like himself who sent those jobs overseas in the first place.

Elon Musk is a humanist. He wants to make the world a better place for all its people. He wants to build manufacturing here in the U.S. to benefit America, not to try to "take back" jobs. His vision of the electrification of transportation has a view of reducing carbon emissions and slowing the coming disaster of climate change, which affects the entire world.

Musk wants to build. Trump wants to tear down, and to isolate America from the rest of the world. Musk wants to make America greater than it is in a manner that improves the whole world. Trump thinks that to improve America he needs to decrease the rest of the world. It's as if Trump thinks he can raise the Atlantic ocean by lowering the Pacific ocean.
 
Judging by the latter half of your post and the public reaction, the other side is doing exactly the same. I just have to wonder how exactly is this division helpful for any kind of meaningful dialogue or collaboration - four years of "resistance" and opposition for the sake of opposition, non-collaboration for the sake of non-collaboration...

I find Elon's approach more pragmatic and useful. We shall see where it leads (or not) of course.

Just to be clear, for a lot of people it isn't Democrat vs Republican. It is People vs Trump. I'd be perfectly happy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and many of the other original Republican candidates, but Trump greatly offends me in more ways than I have ever been offended in my entire life. For many of us, we are not against Republicans or conservatives, we are against Trump. To us, he crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed. I don't think a lot of people realize how dangerous this situation is. Some people like Elon are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and I applaud them for that. The country is held together by the thinnest of threads right now.
 
Just to be clear, for a lot of people it isn't Democrat vs Republican. It is People vs Trump. I'd be perfectly happy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and many of the other original Republican candidates, but Trump greatly offends me in more ways than I have ever been offended in my entire life. For many of us, we are not against Republicans or conservatives, we are against Trump. To us, he crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed. I don't think a lot of people realize how dangerous this situation is. Some people like Elon are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and I applaud them for that. The country is held together by the thinnest of threads right now.
hmm where was your outrage when obambi implemented a very similar order?

your ideology is betraying you.
 
His policy is part a matter of political opinion (everyone's is)
Policy is indeed partly a matter of public opinion, but evidence-based policy is defensible. So far, the executive orders haven't been surrounded by evidence. The immigrant ban is ordered as optics in spite of the evidence. The wall is the same. Much of his policy from the campaign trail is opposed to the evidence and data.

I just don't like saying that some people like this policy and some people like that policy. All presidents have done things that aren't supported by the data. So far, it seems like this one has little concern with the real data (climate change, vaccines, free trade) and more with gut. That bothers me.
hmm where was your outrage when obambi implemented a very similar order?

your ideology is betraying you.
Yeah, calling our past president "obambi" shows your lack of ideological bias. As does comparing the two remarkably different orders and calling them "similar." I'd love to hear your take on the similarities and the drive behind them. Which one was a reaction to evidence?
 
hmm where was your outrage when obambi implemented a very similar order?

your ideology is betraying you.
I don't recall having commented specifically on the executive order travel ban. This is about a history of attitudes and behavior of Trump and his inner circle that I believe is destructive, authoritarian, deceitful, morally questionable, and a legitimate danger to the stability of the country.

My ideology is based on responsibility, respect and honor. If that somehow betrays me, so be it.
 
Just to be clear, for a lot of people it isn't Democrat vs Republican. It is People vs Trump. I'd be perfectly happy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and many of the other original Republican candidates, but Trump greatly offends me in more ways than I have ever been offended in my entire life. For many of us, we are not against Republicans or conservatives, we are against Trump. To us, he crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed. I don't think a lot of people realize how dangerous this situation is. Some people like Elon are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and I applaud them for that. The country is held together by the thinnest of threads right now.

I completely agree with you, this was very well stated. I am actually not part of any political party and have voted for both in my lifetime.

Trump is DIFFERENT than the Bushes or other republicans. He is acting like a dictator and is racist and a misogynist. He will rule (until impeached) by Executive Orders (whether legal or not) and completely ignore the other branches of our government (Congress and the Justice department). We all need to unite and eject this man from power.

I don't care how many disagrees I get on this post or in other ways I speak my mind. Evil needs to be stopped.

Elon hanging out with him is really awkward. He is not standing up for the immigrants who built Silicon Valley. California and technology is the economic superpower of the U.S. and it largely built by immigrants. Elon needs to get a backbone like Sergey Brin and stand up against the Muslim Ban and border wall.

The idea of spending billions of dollars on a wall is such a joke. There is a wall already in most places and smugglers build tunnels and other means of getting people in. The only way to stop immigration is to punish the employers like Trump!
 
hmm where was your outrage when obambi implemented a very similar order?

your ideology is betraying you.

You obviously haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
People like you are what got your country in this mess Trump makes of the US currently. I hope you are proud of what you did!
I feel sorry for you and all who are like-(narrow)-minded. Shame on you.
 
You obviously haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
People like you are what got your country in this mess Trump makes of the US currently. I hope you are proud of what you did!
I feel sorry for you and all who are like-(narrow)-minded. Shame on you.
mess? ha, the only mess is that there is clear thinking in place now, care to talk about merkel's immigration mess in your country?
 
mess? ha, the only mess is that there is clear thinking in place now, care to talk about merkel's immigration mess in your country?
There is no mess. Germany is still great. We have 1 million + new great people in the country, and of course some new bad people. Maybe a few dozen REALLY bad people. So what. US gun laws, as an example, are much more dangerous.
 
There is no mess. Germany is still great. We have 1 million + new great people in the country, and of course some new bad people. Maybe a few dozen REALLY bad people. So what. US gun laws, as an example, are much more dangerous.
exactly how are US gun laws more dangerous than the many violent acts of the recent immigrant invasion of germany?
Germany is in a dangerous state of denial about immigration, Islam and terrorism
Army of child migrants who turn to crime and CAN'T be deported - is UK next?
 
exactly how are US gun laws more dangerous than the many violent acts of the recent immigrant invasion of germany?

You can look it up.

Number of deaths in US caused by private gun ownership
vs.
Number of deaths in Germany caused by private gun ownership PLUS number of deaths in Germany caused by refugees

Of course, divide by the number of inhabitants.

You will find that it's much safer to live in Germany.
 
Just to be clear, for a lot of people it isn't Democrat vs Republican. It is People vs Trump. I'd be perfectly happy with Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John Kasich, and many of the other original Republican candidates, but Trump greatly offends me in more ways than I have ever been offended in my entire life. For many of us, we are not against Republicans or conservatives, we are against Trump. To us, he crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed. I don't think a lot of people realize how dangerous this situation is. Some people like Elon are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and I applaud them for that. The country is held together by the thinnest of threads right now.

I get that. And I respect your opinion.

Though I think it is important to understand that the globalist elite is facing a pushback almost everywhere in the west. The notion that they are out of touch - the likes of Democrat and Republican alike (and their counterparts elsewhere) - means that there is a growing portion of population that are greatly offended by the people you list as acceptable. Because they feel those people have failed them.

If anything, Brexit and Trump and the populist uprisings in Europe have taught us that. We ignore that at our peril. Learning to work with, now that sounds like a better plan.

As for the thinnest of threads, yes, probably. But that is not solely because of Trump - it is because of the polar opposites the situation has created. All of them are contributing to the volatile situation. It is not just in the U.S. either.
 
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