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You can ask byers of E-Golf with heat pump what they prefere. VW hold back delivery of all the cars for the last 4 months, because possible problems with heat pump.
The final solution looks like a software utdate at the dealer before delivery.
This 4 months the byers could have used the car, instead of waiting with no information from VW. :-(
The final solution looks like a software utdate at the dealer before delivery.
This 4 months the byers could have used the car, instead of waiting with no information from VW. :-(
Krugerrand
Meow
So same thing. Just change a couple words in the sentence: Oh, you mean selling a car with a 'promised' working ignition switch?
Not sure how this is so complex. I considered the reduction in range expected from weather factors, degradation, speed and driving habits. Given all of that, I'm quite okay with the max new range that the P85 provides. I'm not okay with 10% less.
Given that Tesla promoted a slight increase in range through the awd gearing arrangement, I think my expectations are pretty reasonable. And I think a lot of others feel similarly.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I'm simple and it seems rather obvious to me. I know what 40K miles of average W-Hr/mile looks like on my cars. I could easily drive the PD for two days and know exactly where I stand - city and highway. If I can do it, Tesla can.
We all know how special the PD is so there is no need to over hype it. In fact, there is every reason in the world to under hype it. Given that the car is revolutionary on performance alone Tesla only exposes itself to negative sentiment and press if it does not do exactly what they say it will do on day one with respect to range. Given what was advertised, I expect my PD to do slightly worse than my P+ in the city and slightly better on the highway. If this is not the case (highway), there really is no excuse given Tesla knew before they shipped. Not saying so opens the company up to a whole bunch of criticism significantly negating the positives of the PD and all the press that came with the car.
We all know how special the PD is so there is no need to over hype it. In fact, there is every reason in the world to under hype it. Given that the car is revolutionary on performance alone Tesla only exposes itself to negative sentiment and press if it does not do exactly what they say it will do on day one with respect to range. Given what was advertised, I expect my PD to do slightly worse than my P+ in the city and slightly better on the highway. If this is not the case (highway), there really is no excuse given Tesla knew before they shipped. Not saying so opens the company up to a whole bunch of criticism significantly negating the positives of the PD and all the press that came with the car.
Agree with all of this. So, has anyone contacted ownership or Jerome and are you getting any answers? I plan to ask them, simply -- "please explain how it is that a) the P85D can achieve 285 miles on a single charge and b) why is it not the case that the P85D is more efficient than the P85, as you and your sales team touted?"
Could not agree more. The added highway-range was the last selling point for me justifying for myself I could order this car instead of the normal D. I need at least the same range as the P85+, but the promise of more range sealed the deal for me personally.
In my mind there is _no_ doubt whatsoever that Elon was speaking about both the P85D and the standard D when the infamous rant about adding awd while getting more efficient at the same time was made at the D-event.
If Tesla/Elon now starts backtracking and playing wordgames I will end up feeling cheated and taken for a fool. We have even sold our family car in wait of the P85D so its not easy to just cancel or reorder a standard D either. Not to forget that who can now guarrantee that the standard D will even be more efficient!?
I'm clinging to a small hope that a magical normal-mode will appear, but that hope is getting slimmer by each hour and each report from new owners in US/Canada:crying:
Glad I'm not a stockholder when the press starts picking up on this soon.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
dennis
Model S Plaid
I know it is a nit, but I don't remember Tesla saying the P85D would have more range. IIRC the numbers on the website (at a constant 65 mph) were:
S85D 295
S85 285
P85D 275
I've tried to use the Internet Archive to verify this but can only get the home page to display correctly and not the Model S Design Studio page that had these numbers.
OTOH, the Monroney sticker on the P85D says MPGe of 94 highway compared to 90 MPGe for the S85. That means Tesla did an EPA test using the same hardware that P85D owners have and some version of the software that achieves better highway MPGe. This is not a marketing number like the above ones but a test conducted under rigid rules, with the results submitted to the government.
I'm waiting to see what the P85D owner experience is with the version of the software that Elon promised to get a real world comparison of P85D efficiency. I hope the team that is working on that software is back to work tomorrow after getting Christmas Day off.
@dennis Norwegian design studio still shows 460km at 105kph which is indeed 1:1 with 285miles at 65mph. I am 90% sure the US design studio said the same until the epa-numbers popped up.
old 2013 P85-numbers whee originally 440 or 460km at 95kph in the Norwegian design studio. Only have my ipad now so finding the screenshots isnt easy, but they are somewhere on the norwegian forum I am certain.
old 2013 P85-numbers whee originally 440 or 460km at 95kph in the Norwegian design studio. Only have my ipad now so finding the screenshots isnt easy, but they are somewhere on the norwegian forum I am certain.
You mean like every single version of operating software that Apple has ever released for its iPhones and MacBooks (of which I use both and have been very happy with in general despite known bugs)?
Krugerrand
Meow
The expectation of perfection from imperfect humans is always interesting to me.
You're saying that expecting to get what you thought you were paying for is a sign of imperfection? Sounds like a sign of rationalism to me.
Jaff
Active Member
Interesting to a point...then it becomes annoying...(perhaps the whine coming from the front motor...) :wink:
This appears to be extremely difficult for Tesla. I'm not sure why Tesla is constantly releasing products that are unfinished and incomplete. Yet it continues to claim that it is "production constrained". If you are production constrained and can sell all the cars that you make, would it have killed you to wait a couple of months on the D launch until it was truly ready? It seems like Elon's enthusiasm gets way ahead of reality and there is nobody at Tesla to tell him no, you need to wait.
After the latest software update my indicated full charge range increased from 242 miles to 251 miles. Today I will do a 100 mile round trip 90% highway, and will be able to compare the energy usage that I experieced in my first 300 miles. I will put the car in range mode, and the sport setting.
Elon said "approach", not match. You are setting the bar too high. P85+ had an EPA range of 265 miles.
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