Do you know that you must keep your battery charged?

[AnOutsider]

Part of the problem is it's another hurdle to overcome for an EV. Raising specters along the lines of "Not only might you run out of battery on a trip, but if you don't get it plugged in right away that low battery will turn into a giant $40,000 paperweight!"

You can bank on that FUD being raised and all the more dangerous since it has a tiny kernel of truth hidden amongst the fear mongering. It's something Tesla will need to think about, whether technically or from a PR viewpoint or both. I wonder what the Leaf documentation and policy are on drained batteries?

Agreed, and that's a very real concern if you run out of juice -- one, that I admit, I was unaware of. The article has it right that Tesla downplays this. I remember there was a thread where we were discussing if you had to plug in every night and if not plugging in every night would prolong or harm the batteries. If I remember correctly, the general concensus was that less charges meant longer battery, but the pricing and options came right after where tesla just "recommended" plugging in every night.

Call me an idiot, but never having owned an EV before, I had no idea that the batteries would let themselves drain to 0 or that when that happens it spells game over for said battery, and to my knowledge, Tesla hasn't stated this either. If i havent picked up on that, being on this forum daily, what do you think the average joe knows? Certainly gives a sharp edge to the feeling of range anxiety.

And dont give me *sugar* about reading the manual, if the article is to be believed, Tesla isnt even 100% clear in the manual.

 

[JRP3]

A fully charged lithium battery takes years (not just months) to fully discharge from self discharge.

This is the crucial point. Lithium batteries effectively have almost no self discharge, so it is really the car that is killing them, which should not happen. I have an 18650 LiCo cell that was sitting in the fridge for 3 years before I used it to replace the one in my GPS and it's been working fine for two years of use. Certainly the cooler temps of the fridge helped, but I think Tesla is too aggressive in temperature management if they are allowing systems to drain the pack for management purposes. This may have been more of an issue with the Roadster than with the newer cells in the S and X. One battery researcher I've spoken to feels that Tesla went overboard in their attempts to protect the cells, maybe they've dialed things back.

 

[JRP3]

Anti-gibberish

Isn't that 50 mile figure a bit optimistic?

 

[Doug_G]

That "brick" blog post is really making the rounds. A friend just forwarded me a link to it. He stumbled across it while looking for information on camera batteries.

 

[bonnie]

Forward one to him about turning ICE vehicles into bricks if you fail to keep oil in the engine.

 

[dpeilow]

Isn't that 50 mile figure a bit optimistic?

52 miles is the official NEDC electric range of the Ampera. It's the same test that the ICE cars go through, so it's the only like-for-like comparison.

If it is optimistic, then so are the ICE emissions numbers. However, no one seems to query those in the wider automotive world and I'm not wanting the message to be distracted with that whole can of worms.

 

[AnOutsider]

Forward one to him about turning ICE vehicles into bricks if you fail to keep oil in the engine.

Even if, it's far more likely to deplete the battery in an ev than run out of oil. Every trip you run the risk of battery depletion if you reach your destination and have no where to plug in.

Again, it's an issue yes, but my main gripe is that Tesla doesn't seem to be making this very clear to folks.

 

[bonnie]

Even if, it's far more likely to deplete the battery in an ev than run out of oil. Every trip you run the risk of battery depletion if you reach your destination and have no where to plug in.

Again, it's an issue yes, but my main gripe is that Tesla doesn't seem to be making this very clear to folks.

I can't speak for others, but prior to taking delivery of my Roadster, I was sent very clear information on battery maintenance. And I was given that same information when I picked up my car. Other forum members should correct me (or confirm), but I believe that the car will shut itself down PRIOR to reaching zero SOC, to protect the battery and give you time to get it plugged in.

(And, uhhh, it's more likely that I'd run out of oil. -red face- I HATE checking the oil.)

 

[ckessel]

Forward one to him about turning ICE vehicles into bricks if you fail to keep oil in the engine.

Well, oil doesn't really dissipate while sitting around so I'm not sure that's quite a valid comparison.

If batteries can truly take years to discharge if completely disconnected, that might be Tesla's best bet is just disconnect completely when down below some threshold, even if that requires a tow or a Tesla ranger to visit.

My RX8, with a rotary, has an odd flooding problem if turned off when cold that's even in the manual. It's possible to get it into a state where it won't start and you have to take it to the dealer, so "car disabled for safety, take it to the dealer" isn't unheard of. My RX8 though doesn't get damaged because of it, it's just annoying (happened once in 8 years) and that's what Tesla would need to ensure: that it's rare and could be annoying, but basically zero chance of damaging the battery.

 

[bonnie]

Well, oil doesn't really dissipate while sitting around so I'm not sure that's quite a valid comparison.
.

The point I was attempting to make (but clearly failed) was that it's not that difficult to brick an ICE - and there is not all the FUD about that. When is the last time you saw someone freak that they'd bought an ICE and the dealer didn't stress the importance of adding oil? Right. Same here.

I wasn't trying to do a perfectly alignerd comparison. I was only attempting (again, an obvious fail) to illustrate a point. People are new to EVs, so everyone is on a learning curve. But for folks to think that 'bricking' is a unique issue only associated with EVs is over-dramatization.

 

[ckessel]

The point I was attempting to make (but clearly failed) was that it's not that difficult to brick an ICE - and there is not all the FUD about that.

Ah, sorry, I missed it. I think where I lost the connection was in my mind bricking an ICE usually requires doing something active. Just not having enough oil isn't sufficient, you have to be driving it in that state.

With an EV, you can brick it passively through inaction rather than actively. I'm not saying that's worse, just that it's not how people think about cars. Heck, it's probably not how people think of non-living things in general, you typically expect if you leave a thing alone it'll be basically the same when you get back.

An example I could see happening, you can park an ICE at an airport with almost no gas and go on your month long world cruise, come back and it's fine. You couldn't do that with a low charge EV. Again, it's that mindset of "What happened? The car just sat there doing nothing. All the other cars in the lot are fine." There's a certain amount of idiot-proofing that might be a good idea (e.g. complete battery disconnect threshold).

 

[Lloyd]

More bouncing of the same article!

 

[mpt]

John over at Green Car Reports is hoping to get something from Tesla to knock this on the head Bricking A Tesla Roadster Battery: Today's Electric Car Meme

 

[dpeilow]

Now that Tesla shows signs of going mainstream, watch the FUD ramp up.

 

[AnOutsider]

Now that Tesla shows signs of going mainstream, watch the FUD ramp up.

Naturally, but it doesn't seem like this is a non-issue?

 

[AndreN]

You can definitely brick an ICE through inaction. A friend of mine's family in grade school had a car with a leaky radiator. They kept topping it off with water in the summer. Guess what happened in winter? Cracked block. I guess that's half action, half inaction, but that's the same as plugging in a Tesla with some insanely long extension cord and leaving it for months.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Jalopnik has picked up the story...
http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem

Might be good time to pick up some more shares in the likely price dip on TSLA...

 

[AnOutsider]

You can definitely brick an ICE through inaction. A friend of mine's family in grade school had a car with a leaky radiator. They kept topping it off with water in the summer. Guess what happened in winter? Cracked block. I guess that's half action, half inaction, but that's the same as plugging in a Tesla with some insanely long extension cord and leaving it for months.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[ElSupreme]

Ok, how many people have a large sedan and don't drive it for 2 weeks? For those times when they don't drive it for an extended period how often is the car not at home?

The roadster was a toy for a lot of people, or an display of eco-conscienceless and/or wealth. The didn't buy it to drive (no one on this forum). So sure those cars just sat in a garage and 5 dropped below recharge level for the Li-ion. Doesn't seem really excessive. When I leave for somewhere for more than 5 days I won't park my car in the airport lot. It costs more than 2 taxi rides. And my car bakes/freezes in the lot. I normally park at my dad's condo, and he drives it at least once. And take the train, since he lives <1 mile from a station.

That said, how many of you have ruined your cell phone's battery this way? I have, it isn't really that easy to do. It requires neglect. The same with never changing your car oil. It is just a different kind of neglect. It isn't like finding a 120V 15A outlet is hard to do.

EDIT: The 6 roadsters on eBay, 5 of which had less than 1k miles is evidence of this.

 

[bonnie]

Now that Tesla shows signs of going mainstream, watch the FUD ramp up.

Seatbelt fastened.

(and Buy order at the ready )