Destino - V8 powered Fisker Karma

[doug]

They may be able to sell a few hundred of these, but what does that really mean for Fisker?

The Destino is basically what the typical petrolhead Jalopnik commenter has repeatedly said should be done with the Karma. (Paraphrasing from memory) "Drop that weird joker mask, rip out that crappy hybrid drivetrain, and put a real engine in there!" There's no doubting the appeal to a certain segment of the population. On its own, it's fairly exciting. An "American made" stylish four-door Corvette.

But how much revenue can Fisker realistically expect to make acting as a middleman/licensor between Valmet and VL? Is it worth the damage to the brand Fisker has been trying to build over the the past five years? Seems to me, the Destino will always be seen as the V8 Karma, and among the eco-conscious this "green car" maker has been marketing to, Fisker will be seen as going from EVer to whatEVer.

 

[Yggdrasill]

This is what I read today in "Nettavisen", the one of the largest online newspapers here, with 20% of the population reading it at least once a week:

"Fisker has made it their thing to make stunningly beautiful cars, and the new Destino continues this trend. It's actually a regular Fisker Karma, where the hybrid drive system has been ripped out and replaced with a 638 horsepower V8-engine from the ZR1 Corvette. Oh my!"

When not even they can't determine that it's not made by Fisker, I would say the brand damage is enormous. If Fisker actually agrees to sell Karma gliders, that says something about the dire financial situation they are in.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Personally, I never really got the Karma anyways. It didn't seem to do anything particularly well and the ridiculous solar cells just made the whole concept scream green-washing to me.

For that reason, allowing the Destino just makes even less business sense. If your business case for the Karma assumes that green cred is so critical that you need to include useless solar cells just to project the proper image, then it seems to me that allowing the Destino just absolutely nukes your brand.

And if you feel that the business case for the Karma has failed and its time to move in a different direction, then the proper course is to manufacture the Destino yourself, instead of allowing a third party to capture the bulk of the value in the new venture.

Just insane. If I was an investor in Fisker (intrepid souls though they must be) I'd see this as definitive evidence that its time to pack up the kids and garbanzo beans (official survival food of the Fiskerati™) and head to the hills.

 

[SoCalGuy]

Dan Neil and his weird taste on the Destino:

Detroit Auto Show: Fisker Karma Redesigned - VL Destino - Dan Neil - YouTube

 

[doug]

Dan Neil and his weird taste on the Destino:

His comments essentially reflect what I said. Without the weird grill and with the performance to match the looks, this car has some appeal. But so much for "Responsible Luxury." Maybe this is Fisker's survival strategy. From EVer to whatEVer sells. (Yeah I know I already used that, but it's catchy.)

 

[vfx]

"The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection"

"There is no Substitute"

The Ultimate Driving Machine.

It won’t be catching fire very often!

 

[palmer_md]

His comments essentially reflect what I said. Without the weird grill and with the performance to match the looks, this car has some appeal. But so much for "Responsible Luxury." Maybe this is Fisker's survival strategy. From EVer to whatEVer sells. (Yeah I know I already used that, but it's catchy.)

Yep, Fisker is doing anything it can to stay alive. If they can sell a few bodies to some other company in order to keep the business going, more power to them. I agree with Dan. A 4 door corvette will certainly appeal to a certain market segment. I just think it is too expensive. I can buy two corvettes and get the four doors and then have twice the horsepower. Haha.

 

[SoCalGuy]

His comments essentially reflect what I said. Without the weird grill and with the performance to match the looks, this car has some appeal. But so much for "Responsible Luxury." Maybe this is Fisker's survival strategy. From EVer to whatEVer sells. (Yeah I know I already used that, but it's catchy.)

I don't care for the new grille - and now seeing the rear in silver, I think I prefer the Karma's. And the rims, the Circuit Blade on the Karma are the nicest 22s I've ever seen. No need to mess with perfection =)

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, Fisker is doing anything it can to stay alive. If they can sell a few bodies to some other company in order to keep the business going, more power to them. I agree with Dan. A 4 door corvette will certainly appeal to a certain market segment. I just think it is too expensive. I can buy two corvettes and get the four doors and then have twice the horsepower. Haha.

The ZR1 starts at $112K and fully loaded, is about $135K. So $200K for a 4-door version with better styling and more 'luxury' features seems within the realm of reason.

 

[dailydriver]

Personally, I never really got the Karma anyways. It didn't seem to do anything particularly well and the ridiculous solar cells just made the whole concept scream green-washing to me.

For that reason, allowing the Destino just makes even less business sense. If your business case for the Karma assumes that green cred is so critical that you need to include useless solar cells just to project the proper image, then it seems to me that allowing the Destino just absolutely nukes your brand.

And if you feel that the business case for the Karma has failed and its time to move in a different direction, then the proper course is to manufacture the Destino yourself, instead of allowing a third party to capture the bulk of the value in the new venture.

Just insane. If I was an investor in Fisker (intrepid souls though they must be) I'd see this as definitive evidence that its time to pack up the kids and garbanzo beans (official survival food of the Fiskerati™) and head to the hills.

I concur!

 

[Doug_G]

The mere existence of this product confirms in my mind what I've always suspected. Fisker doesn't really care about sustainable transportation. He wanted to design a car "his way", and simply used the "green" angle as a hook to lure in investors.

 

[brianman]

Fisker will be seen as going from EVer to whatEVer.

Heh. /like

 

[doug]

Bob Lutz: Destino is the Fisker Karma people will actually want - ABG

Bob Lutz tells AutoblogGreen that VL Automotive has so far purchased eight Karmas, and two have been turned into finished engineering prototypes. Fisker says a total of 20 have been ordered. Still, Lutz believes this is a car with an audience. "I just heard so many people say, I love the Fisker Karma but I'm not going to buy it because I don't want that electric drivetrain with the four-cylinder engine," he said.
...
... VL Automotive buys the Karmas and then removes the battery pack (carefully setting it aside) at VL Automotive's headquarters in Auburn Hills, Michigan – not far from Lutz's old job at Chrysler. "We were able to run the driveshaft right down the battery tunnel and we had to make a modification where the battery tunnel ends and the rear firewall starts, because the Corvette transaxle intruded somewhat, so we had to make a little aluminum doghouse that's welded to the vertical rear panel," Lutz told us. "They had a gas tank, but there's all this room left over." In the future, the conversions will be even easier, since VL will buy glider chassis direct from Valmet, in Finland, Lutz said.

From Fisker's point of view, buying the Karmas whole is actually a good thing, Lutz believes. "[Fisker] has had incredible hard luck," he said, "And with the battery supplier not producing batteries, they're actually glad if we buy new ones and ship the batteries and the electrical back to them for a credit – that permits them to build more cars."

 

[doug]

 

[doug]

After doing some digging, it turns out there a connection between VL Automotive and VIA Motors (the utility truck conversion shop) besides just Bob Lutz.

Gilbert Villarreal (the V in VL) is the president of Concorde Manufacturing. Gilbert Villarreal - Executive Profile

Last September VIA announced it would be doing their vehicle assembly with Concorde.
Fleets and Fuels.com -- Via Is Setting Up Shop in Michigan

Via Motors is to announce Tuesday that it has established an assembly center for its plug-in hybrid electric trucks and vans with Concorde Manufacturing in Auburn Hills, Mich. Production is to get underway in earnest in the first quarter of 2013.

So it appears that while VIA is figuratively pulling V8s and installing serial PHEV drives into GM trucks, VL is doing the opposite to Karmas, perhaps under the same roof.

I remember about a year ago A123 announced VIA as a customer. Don't know VIA is still using them, though.

 

[dpeilow]

New Karma bumper sticker, "Fisker sell out: Not cl"


So does VIA/Concorde buy a van from GM, rip out the V8, shove that in the Karma, then shove the A123 battery pack and motors in the van, then finally get a new V6 for the van (maybe trading in the Karma's 2l turbo for it)? If they do it's beautiful/genius.

 

[doug]

More from Dan Neil on the Destino with a different video:
VL Destino: The Car that Stole the Detroit Show? (Video) - Drivers Seat - WSJ

The article opens:

ONE NIGHT IN July, Gilbert Villarreal and three of his engineers tucked in to a dinner at On the Border restaurant in Auburn Hills, Mich. Mr. Villarreal’s company had landed a contract to build a small fleet of plug-in hybrid commercial vans, but production was imperiled by the looming bankruptcy of battery maker A123, in Livonia, Mich. Where were they going to get the batteries?

Then someone wondered aloud: What are those guys over at Fisker going to do? Like Mr. Villarreal’s plug-in utility van, the sleek, six-figure Fisker Karma—an electric sedan-coupe built in Finland by Henrik Fisker, the former design chief at BMW and Aston Martin—has at its core a whopping 20-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack sourced from A123. The Karma’s troubles were well known: overdrawn, overpromised, overweight. The company had to recall hundreds of cars to patch a fault in the A123 battery.

One of the engineers mused: Somebody at Fisker should just drop a Corvette ZR1 engine in the Karma and be done with it.

Mr. Villarreal thought: I know how to do that.

Seems reasonable to assume the "contract to build a small fleet of plug-in hybrid commercial vans" was with VIA.

 

[vfx]

ABG made this connection.

So Bob proably liked the Fisker from the start

Cunningham C7

Destino

 

[doug]

Bob again: Why I'm 'Desecrating' Fisker's Beautiful Electric Sedan With A Brawny Gasoline Engine - Forbes

So some people might be surprised at my latest venture: retrofitting the plug-in hybrid Fisker Karma with a powerful internal combustion engine.

Here’s why. I’ve regularly heard this refrain from affluent customers who had succumbed to the aesthetic lure of the Karma, arguably the prettiest 4-door sedan ever: “I love the styling, which is why I bought it. Gawd, I wish it had a big V-8 under the hood. I could care less about that electric drive.”

 

[bonnie]

Bob Lutz' Ego said those things.

 

[lolachampcar]

Most all successful people have developed egos; its how they manage that ego that sets them apart. Lutz v. Musk is a very good example of this point.