David Silverman, president of American Atheists on CNN with Tesla

[NigelM]

So one more Tesla owner who supports the premise of the OP. 

If we're keeping score, we have to take a look at what Nikola Tesla said:

"The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power."

Interesting that I quoted him with a link about 5 pages back But nobody replied. ;-)

 

[Johan]

If we're keeping score, we have to take a look at what Nikola Tesla said:



Interesting that I quoted him with a link about 5 pages back But nobody replied. ;-)

Well... that was then. Now is now. A lot of water has flown under the bridge since those days.

 

[HVM]

"There is no conflict between the ideal of religion and the ideal of science, but science is opposed to theological dogmas because science is founded on fact. To me, the universe is simply a great machine which never came into being and never will end. The human being is no exception to the natural order. Man, like the universe, is a machine. Nothing enters our minds or determines our actions which is not directly or indirectly a response to stimuli beating upon our sense organs from without. Owing to the similarity of our construction and the sameness of our environment, we respond in like manner to similar stimuli, and from the concordance of our reactions, understanding is born. In the course of ages, mechanisms of infinite complexity are developed, but what we call "soul" or "spirit," is nothing more than the sum of the functionings of the body. When this functioning ceases, the "soul" or the "spirit" ceases likewise"

Tesla, Nikola, as told to George Sylvester Viereck (February 1937). "A Machine to End War"

 

[NigelM]

If god was able to make all of heaven and earth and finally, us, in a matter of six days ....

My apologies for picking on this quote, I'm just using it as the latest of many examples in this discussion where folks have quoted something out of the Bible. There's a great ignorance about Christianity and the Bible to the extent that many atheists like to quote senseless examples to "prove" that religion is stupid or contradictory. Just to set the record straight:....

The Old Testament was written by humans using their own words and interpretations; the universe is complex, God is complex, and was way beyond the understanding of people who lived at that time....in many ways it's still beyond our understanding today (for all you atheists, what's outside the universe?).

The New Testament essentially comprises 4 accounts of Jesus' life and teachings; but bear in mind that Jesus often spoke in parables and simple terms so that His message could be understood and promulgated.

So yes, there are plenty of 'quotes' you can pull from the Bible which look silly out of context but the over-riding message is one of love and compassion, tolerance and understanding. Oh, and belief in God is entirely compatible with evolution and science.

- - - Updated - - -

Well... that was then. Now is now. A lot of water has flown under the bridge since those days.

LOL. That's pretty dismissive of a great scientist. Nevertheless in the context of this thread's comments on thousand year old manuscripts it's also amusing that you junk Tesla's comment because it's a hundred years old.

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla, Nikola, as told to George Sylvester Viereck (February 1937). "A Machine to End War"

Tesla was often misunderstood so it's worth always checking back to his autobiography for his unfiltered personal views. Here's another one:

"Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment and merging of races, and we are still far from this blissful realization, because few indeed, will admit the reality that "God made man in His image" in which case all earth men are alike. There is in fact but one race, of many colors. Christ is but one person, yet he is of all people, so why do some people think themselves better than some other people

 

[HankLloydRight]

To clarify, I call myself a scientist not an atheist because so many atheists believe in the 2 biggest anti-science conspiracies in human history, by far, worse than creationism, flat earth etc. Quite frankly embarrassing.

And that's me out of this thread, I'm not returning to it anymore. This is a car forum.

Damn... I sure would love to know what those two huge "anti-science conspiracies in human history" are that I might be believing in.

And now he's gone. Strange to drop a bomb like that and not explain what he's actually talking about. Anyone know?

 

[HVM]

... Tesla was often misunderstood so it's worth always checking back to his autobiography for his unfiltered personal views. Here's another one:

I read "MY INVENTIONS" by Nikola Tesla from the Electrical Experimenter Magazine. Your version is THE STRANGE LIFE OF NIKOLA TESLA, which is totally different from magazine articles with odd religious additions. Maybe those are made by Tesla in later life, or some editor, who knows. (also pigeons)

 

[NigelM]

I read "MY INVENTIONS" by Nikola Tesla from the Electrical Experimenter Magazine. Your version is THE STRANGE LIFE OF NIKOLA TESLA, which is totally different from magazine articles with odd religious additions. Maybe those are made by Tesla in later life, or some editor, who knows. (also pigeons)

Nope, not true. I quoted directly from My-Inventions-Autobiography-Nikola-Tesla. If you have the English language version check pages 69 and 95.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

How about a non-practicing atheist ?

I was thinking the same thing. Just because someone doesn't practice a religion, does not mean that they practice atheism. If there is a correlation between Tesla ownership and atheism, it's a coincidence. Many Tesla owners have technical backgrounds and use first principles reasoning in their daily lives. Does this make them less likely to need religion in their lives? Perhaps, but even engineers have moments of personal spirituality.

 

[Karl-Heinz]

Correlation

Baccalaureate, Masters, AbD in Mathematics and born of 2 scientists. 100% believer (Christian to the core) and can't wait for my Model X with all technology offered.

I doubt there is a correlation. .

+1

PhD in Engineering and 3 Masters, and believing. Wife academic and atheist, children making up their mind

All together looking forward towards the Model-X delivery, and me towards progress in space exploration and sustainable energy, i also doubt any correlation.

 

[Beckler]

Just because someone doesn't practice a religion, does not mean that they practice atheism.

That pretty much is the definition of atheism though, and there's nothing to practice. Unless babies and small children are considered to be practicing something. Lack of crazy supernatural belief is surely the default human condition - until lying, dirty old men in costumes and hats come and tell you otherwise, that is.

 

[bonnie]

Just because someone doesn't practice a religion, does not mean that they practice atheism.

That pretty much is the definition of atheism though, and there's nothing to practice. Unless babies and small children are considered to be practicing something. Lack of crazy supernatural belief is surely the default human condition - until lying, dirty old men in costumes and hats come and tell you otherwise, that is.

Wait, what? Plenty of people (like me) believe in something bigger, feel they have a relationship with God, and don't consider themselves religious or adhere to a specific set of beliefs, other than what they feel to be true. Surely you're not calling everyone who doesn't practice a religion an atheist ...

 

[NigelM]

I'm not trying to attack believers......

Yeah right:

Lack of crazy supernatural belief is surely the default human condition - until lying, dirty old men in costumes and hats come and tell you otherwise, that is.

It's a shame that you feel such an intolerance towards your fellow human beings. I'll pray for you.

 

[Johan]

LOL. That's pretty dismissive of a great scientist. Nevertheless in the context of this thread's comments on thousand year old manuscripts it's also amusing that you junk Tesla's comment because it's a hundred years old.

Well he was a scientist and not a philosopher. His religiouness was likely a product of the time he was living in and his upbringing. Religion is most of all a cultural phenomonenon. As the times and culture changes, so do religions. And what we're seeing today is that more and more people are questioning the concept of religion alltogehter. Some will say that this is a sign of society loosing its bearing - I would claim that just as with any other phenomenon it is a sign of progress. That is what I meant by "that was then and now is now". In other words would it not be quite likely that had Tesla lived today he would have been atheist?

 

[beeeerock]

My apologies for picking on this quote, I'm just using it as the latest of many examples in this discussion where folks have quoted something out of the Bible. There's a great ignorance about Christianity and the Bible to the extent that many atheists like to quote senseless examples to "prove" that religion is stupid or contradictory. Just to set the record straight:....

The Old Testament was written by humans using their own words and interpretations; the universe is complex, God is complex, and was way beyond the understanding of people who lived at that time....in many ways it's still beyond our understanding today (for all you atheists, what's outside the universe?).

The New Testament essentially comprises 4 accounts of Jesus' life and teachings; but bear in mind that Jesus often spoke in parables and simple terms so that His message could be understood and promulgated.

So yes, there are plenty of 'quotes' you can pull from the Bible which look silly out of context but the over-riding message is one of love and compassion, tolerance and understanding. Oh, and belief in God is entirely compatible with evolution and science.

I wondered if someone might take that bait...! I was hoping it would be the comments about treating the planet with the respect it's due as another of his creations, but I recognize that's a tough one to take on.

The real issue here is that you're also cherry-picking the parts that fit with your beliefs and rejecting the rest. Dude, it's either your User's Manual for Life or it's not. Taking liberties with interpretation leads to essentially what is in the great video someone posted earlier. The basics are in the book, but they're also included in my basic beliefs without religion ("I have my own moral compass to steer by") so why bother? I can live a good life AND get yard work done on Sunday! Win-win!

Is it possible for me to pick and choose which of the ten commandments work for me and discard the rest? The top half of the list don't work for me, but that could probably be assumed. I find there is a credibility problem or perceived conflict of interest given that the first half of the list appear to be in conflict with the sin of Pride listed in the seven deadly sins. I'm not well-read on the details as you know - perhaps there is something in there where god himself gets a free pass because he created us... dunno. But I do know that if I live a good life and don't get into heaven simply because I didn't worship and believe... and watch some guy who went to confession every Sunday and then screwed people over the next week just like last week, get in - it's not a place I want to go. My Ten Commandments also include "don't be a hypocrite" and "do your best to suffer fools". My mother tells me that last one is probably a work in progress at best - she's probably right.

Interesting that all religions seem to focus on what amounts to the same ten commandments but the followers then tend to go rogue on the finer points that follow. Remember the Inquisitions? Oh, man, THOSE were some good times, weren't they!?!?!? Will history look at what's going on in the Middle East and lump those events in together as 'religious growing pains'?

Oh, and by the way, I've said more than once that I'm not an atheist. I'm very open to the possibility that there is a higher explanation to all we know... I'm just certain we as humans are too stupid to know what it is... so I guess we'll find out when we die.

I've spent enough time on my front porch and have no more time for this thread... have a good day!

 

[Beckler]

Wait, what? Plenty of people (like me) believe in something bigger, feel they have a relationship with God, and don't consider themselves religious or adhere to a specific set of beliefs, other than what they feel to be true. Surely you're not calling everyone who doesn't practice a religion an atheist ...

Fair point. I guess I was thinking more 'religion' rather than 'a religion'. Or religious-type beliefs. If you're talking about a relationship with god then of course no that's not atheism.

It's a shame that you feel such an intolerance towards your fellow human beings. I'll pray for you.

Not intolerance but rather just harsh invective to drive a point; not literal, clearly. You think I believe old men come at night with a mask and corrupt kids? That said, have you read anything about the catholic church? It wouldn't be too off-base. Anyway, if a largish man in a cape with a hat and staff started approaching a child in a darkened room to talk about magic and spirits, I'd call 911. BTW pomposity is ridiculous nonsense, sorry, so yeah I'm intolerant towards it. Whatever.

As for praying for me, I'm setting up my radio equipment in my basement tonight and sending messages to Cybertron requesting they dispatch Megatron (fitted with omnipotence device) to fight whatever god you're into (and that of scientology of course).

 

[NigelM]

Well he was a scientist and not a philosopher. His religiouness was likely a product of the time he was living in and his upbringing. Religion is most of all a cultural phenomonenon. As the times and culture changes, so do religions. And what we're seeing today is that more and more people are questioning the concept of religion alltogehter. Some will say that this is a sign of society loosing its bearing - I would claim that just as with any other phenomenon it is a sign of progress. That is what I meant by "that was then and now is now". In other words would it not be quite likely that had Tesla lived today he would have been atheist?

I think you're underestimating Tesla's free thinking, which is where many of his inventions come from. Sure his Father was a Pastor but it's too limiting to attribute his views on God to his "upbringing". The point in any case was that even for someone as brilliant as Nikola Tesla, God and science are not incompatible.

- - - Updated - - -

I wondered if someone might take that bait...! I was hoping it would be the comments about treating the planet with the respect it's due as another of his creations, but I recognize that's a tough one to take on.

The real issue here is that you're also cherry-picking the parts that fit with your beliefs and rejecting the rest. Dude, it's either your User's Manual for Life or it's not.

Firstly, deliberately baiting is just silly; you're not going to get a reasoned discussion if you just want to throw in deliberate baiting. Secondly, "cherry-picking" is not something I was doing at all, although it is exactly what you are doing by referencing the Spanish inquisition as a way to discredit any belief in God.

- - - Updated - - -

Not intolerance but rather just harsh invective to drive a point....so yeah I'm intolerant towards it. Whatever.

Make your mind up. ;-) Again, it's a shame if folks can't come up with better points to discuss without resorting to "harsh invective".

 

[dsm363]

Where is Al with his group hug?

 

[NigelM]

Where is Al with his group hug?

(Amazingly) This thread has stayed 90% cordial.

 

[dsm363]

(Amazingly) This thread has stayed 90% cordial.

I agree. Amazing and glad people are actually discussing it calmly.

 

[tigerade]

What is going on here? A civil, polite discussion about religion, on the internet of all places?

Firstly, I don't think there is any correlation between religious belief and love of EV's. And if there was, who really cares? Tesla is an awesome car, and that is an objective point.

Secondly, I've been really impressed with some of the Christians I meet. Definitely some of the nicest, most thoughtful, caring people I ever knew were Christian. At the same time, I have met plenty of jerks that were atheists. But anyway, what's my view? I have read the Christian Bible. I find the idea that all of humanity, all life on Earth, all planets and stars, all galaxies were created by something we would call a God. That is really unsatisfying explanation for the origin of the universe. It opens more questions. What created God? How did God become powerful enough to create a universe? What is the process of empowering a God to be able to create a universe? And on. And no, I won't accept the answer of "That's not for you to know or understand". That is not an argument, it's a cop-out.

Anyway, I'm sure that it is comforting for someone to say "I am worshiping the correct God, the other 6,000 or so Gods are all made up and are wrong. I am also worshipping God in the correct way, all the different sects of Christianity are not quite worshiping the correct way and also not Jews and Muslims. But I am right, they are wrong. And my belief in particular is correct and I will ignore centuries worth of science and philosophy that may contradict my view". That may be a comfortable thought for some people, and sadly is for millions of my fellow Americans, but not me. It's not comfort I seek. I don't really care whether or not there is a celestial being looking out for me, but I haven't seen any compelling evidence that there is. In fact, look at the Middle Ages during the Black Death. Europe was almost universally Christian. Imagine how much they begged and pleaded towards the sky for a God they truly believed in, and the suffering just increased more. You could actually argue maybe that there is really a God but one that is malicious and seems to unleash horrific carnage on his own followers, even those that love him and worship him.

The tremendous irony of that is, is that the one thing that has relieved suffering from human beings more than any other - advancements of science and technology, which the Church very firmly was against at least initially. Look at the advancements we have made. You could possibly argue that God seems to love people who embrace science and reason, because those are the most successful advents in human history. If that is the case, I will happily proceed on with embracing science and reason, while rejecting the fear, ignorance and stupidity that others embrace.

But what would it take me to really believe in the same God that millions of Americans embrace? Well, one thing that won't work is any kind of social pressure or bullying, or threats. I try to live my life the best I can. If there is some deity that wants to throw me in a lake of fire for me to suffer indefinitely, then that's his prerogative. I will not live my life in fear, and will not be pressured to believe something I really don't out of fear of getting punished later on. Also, if you really do want me to believe, then show me some evidence besides personal revelation. I mean real evidence, objectively discovered and reproducible.

One thing out of curiosity though. If God really is real, again I'm speaking about the Christian one and not the 6,000 or so other ones created across tribes and cultures, why is it he doesn't reveal himself at all, not even in the slightest? Out of 14 billion years of the Universe, why is it for the majority of that time (the sun is about 4.5 billion years old) he was content on letting stars just indiscriminately blow up and recreate themselves (the sun is a 3rd generation star apparently). Out of the 4 billion years or so that the Earth has been around, why just wait around for the planet to only have boring, single celled life? If I were a God, it would be like staring a blank TV, quite boring. I would do what I could to speed up complex life including the dinosaurs. Now, if I were a God watching the dinosaurs constantly maul each other to death, I can say that would be entertaining to watch, kind of like UFC except even better. But why not keep them around instead of letting an asteroid wipe them all out? Such a bummer.

Then, what is the point of letting all the other cool mammals and sea creatures die out? In fact, about 99% of all life on Earth that has ever lived on Earth has gone extinct. It's clear that God doesn't care much for preserving life (on contrary of what those who worship say about him). God was even particular about letting human-like species like Neanderthals and Denisovans die out. Again, don't see the point of letting very human-like species die out but for us to exist. Then, why is it he made no effort to reveal himself to other civilizations in the world? The Chinese, Indians, Mayans and Egyptians lived thousands of years without hearing a single thing about his existence, apparently he was just quite fine with that. Also seems to be fine with thousands of tribes and cultures having their own Gods. He also seems quite fine with those who believe in him having very different views... Christianity, Judaism, and Islam can't all be right- they are mutually contradictory. The problem is even more confounded when you introduce even more Gods and competing religions. Even more depressing is that he seems to do nothing about the tribalism and violence that these differences create. Believers have not been shy about introducing the horrific acts of violence against those who worship the same God in a slightly different way.

And yet, it's again science and reason that has brought the most productivity and success for humanity. So the logical conclusion would seem to be is to keep advancing science and reason, even if believers don't like it or are opposed to it. Do I believe in God? No, but I don't particularly resent anyone that does. It's that I personally oppose any effort to de-enlighten humanity and bring us back towards tribalism, fear and ignorance. I want to advance, not backslide. Just my 2 c