David Silverman, president of American Atheists on CNN with Tesla

[Canuck]

Hmmm. I'd like to see that study. Mom and Dad -- both strong believers -- were into chemistry and biology. They also loved technology.

Source: Scientists data from Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey, conducted in May and June 2009; for complete question wording, see survey topline. General public data from Pew Research Center survey conducted in July 2006; for complete question wording, see survey topline. Numbers may not sum to 100 due to rounding.

Scientists and Belief | Pew Research Center Public Life Project

Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, according to analysis of scores of scientific studies stretching back over decades - Science - News - The Independent

 

[1208]

As a scientist and engineer who is not religious, I don't want to get into a debate but just want to stick up for religious people. Medicine is a science and all the medical doctors and surgeons I know are religious, Christian, Hindu or Muslim. They are also pro electric cars.

A lot of religious people have made more contributions to science and invented more important things than a lot of atheists who have a go at their beliefs. :wink:

I think the lack of enthusiasm for EVs in the UK is nothing to do with beliefs but the cost of them, the BAD infrastructure:cursing: and maybe Clarkson :tongue:. 1 down 2 to go :biggrin:.

 

[Canuck]

Blaming God for the bad things humans do fails to recognize that humans have the will to do as they please.

I can never figure out this argument. First, if you're an atheist you don't blame god. That makes no sense since there is no god, according to an atheist. But if you're religions, then your god is omniscient. That means he knows past, present and future. If he knows my future, as he must, then I have no free will. I am either saved or damned and nothing I can do can change the future god can see is in store for me. So I have no free will.

Also, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. I don't think anyone here believes in Zeus, Thor, etc. Some of us just go one god further.

 

[NigelM]

I can never figure out this argument. First, if you're an atheist you don't blame god. That makes no sense since there is no god, according to an atheist. But if you're religions, then your god is omniscient. That means he knows past, present and future. If he knows my future, as he must, then I have no free will. I am either saved or damned and nothing I can do can change the future god can see is in store for me. So I have no free will.

That reasoning overcooks the word "omniscient", it certainly covers the past and present but maybe we shouldn't assume it includes the future. Perhaps God can see the consequences of the decisions you will take but it's still within your power to take those decisions one way or the other. If God gave us free will then He also has to accept the consequences of what we do with that free will.

Amusing btw: "omniscient" comes from the Latin "omni" meaning "all", and "scient" meaning science; so referring to God as omniscient suggests He is all about science. ;-)

 

[Canuck]

As a scientist and engineer who is not religious, I don't want to get into a debate but just want to stick up for religious people. Medicine is a science and all the medical doctors and surgeons I know are religious, Christian, Hindu or Muslim. They are also pro electric cars.

A lot of religious people have made more contributions to science and invented more important things than a lot of atheists who have a go at their beliefs. :wink:

I think the lack of enthusiasm for EVs in the UK is nothing to do with beliefs but the cost of them, the BAD infrastructure:cursing: and maybe Clarkson :tongue:. 1 down 2 to go :biggrin:.

One thing I know for sure about you, you've completely mastered the member's description and reputations points. Good going!

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That reasoning overcooks the word "omniscient", it certainly covers the past and present but maybe we shouldn't assume it includes the future. Perhaps God can see the consequences of the decisions you will take but it's still within your power to take those decisions one way or the other. If God gave us free will then He also has to accept the consequences of what we do with that free will.

Amusing btw: "omniscient" comes from the Latin "omni" meaning "all", and "scient" meaning science, Referring to God as omniscient suggests He is all about science. ;-)

Good points. But why give me free will and not just have me live a good moral life? I don't want the choice to make bad decisions.

 

[Beckler]

I'd like to suggest that had the US been a full-on religious country, as some would have it start to become even today, there would be no Tesla or any other major technological advancements. Because religion stifles. Entire civilizations. Neil Degrasse Tyson argues this; check out some of his YT videos. That sort of thing depresses and scares me. Which wouldn't be reasonable except, I dunno, it literally already happened/is happening.

 

[NigelM]

Good points. But why give me free will and not just have me live a good moral life? I don't want the choice to make bad decisions.

Perhaps to make us human and not sheep? Responsible use of free will is a force for growth and maturity in society; yes there are evil applications of free will but that's the trade-off.

 

[caddieo]

Perhaps to make us human and not sheep? Responsible use of free will is a force for growth and maturity in society; yes there are evil applications of free will but that's the trade-off.

......maybe so, but there are now books and articles claiming that "free will" is an illusion. To quote Sam Harris, "thoughts and intentions emerge from background causes of which we are unaware and over which we have no control". I am intentionally limiting my participation in this thread to this post and will go no further as none of us humans has the final answer. We are still learning and discovering things about ourselves. Final quote from Alexander Pope - "..........the proper study of mankind is man".

 

[In2oil]

My wife and I are Atheist. We are both B.Sc.Geologist and we drive a TESLA Model S P85D.

CNN running Special tonight on Living without God.

David Silverman, president of American Atheists is also "promoting" his car ... with license plates "ATHE1ST" in New Jersey.

Given that there is a lot of science behind our cars, I suspect there maybe tons of non-believers among us?

(Not starting a potentially controversial debate ... more a rhetorical question.)

 

[NigelM]

I'd like to suggest that had the US been a full-on religious country, as some would have it start to become even today, there would be no Tesla or any other major technological advancements. Because religion stifles.

On the contrary, religious belief might well have persuaded more people to understand that this planet (our environment) should be cherished and nurtured.

BTW, Neil Degrasse Tyson doesn't like being labelled an atheist. As for "stifling" civilizations, it's worth reading Ferngren on Medicine and Religion:

These [religious] beliefs furnished a theological basis for a compassionate care of the sick that led to the creation of the hospital and a long tradition of charitable medicine.

 

[ecarfan]

I'm an atheist scientist.

Free will is an illusion.

The universe is amazing, and we have just taken the first small steps towards understanding it. Everything we have learned about the universe has been learned using the scientific process. Religion is irrelevant.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

On the contrary, religious belief might well have persuaded more people to understand that this planet (our environment) should be cherished and nurtured.

I do not believe that the majority of people who identify themselves as religious view the world this way. The climate change denialist demographic is one example for my assertion.

 

[NigelM]

I do not believe that the majority of people who identify themselves as religious view the world this way.. The climate change denialist demographic is one example for my assertion.

Maybe Pope Francis will (at least for Catholics) prompt a change in that demographic.

 

[beeeerock]

Here I am, another engineer quite willing to admit he's not at all religious. That doesn't mean I'm an atheist, just that I can't get on board with any of the religions currently being followed on the planet. Or any of the others that were around in ancient times and left behind when we became more 'enlightened'...

Simple reason for that... and all you have to do to see it is look around you or watch the news. Humankind is simply too stupid to have the inside track on religion. Is there a higher being that us? I don't know, but it wouldn't have to be very smart to be smarter or higher than us!! It follows that I can't discount the possibility that there is something that might loosely fit our concept of 'God' out there somewhere. I'm just sure it doesn't look anything like what the religions believe. And probably wouldn't preach much more than basic morality if even that. Micro-managing and keeping tally on what we do or don't do doesn't seem very likely either. Are we so high on ourselves that we think we warrant that much attention?

It comes down to us humans wanting and needing an answer for why we're here and where we came from. I admit I'm too stupid to even begin to understand or fathom the cosmos, if a divine entity chose to share the secrets of the Temples of Syrinx with me... and I'm OK with that. When I die, there will either be an afterlife or there won't. Either way, it's not like I have a choice about eventually finding out for myself!

Relevant to Tesla? I think there's a chance that those who have an interest in Tesla are the same people who aren't completely willing to accept they don't have some control or responsibility in determining their own destiny. That doesn't preclude those who are religious, but it would likely eliminate a few... like those who don't believe in global warming or expect God to sort it all out for us... He might do exactly that, but I don't think it will end as well as we'd like if we leave it to Him...

 

[AB4EJ]

Is there really a poll that shows a (statistically significant) correlation between Tesla ownership and atheism? It would be astonishing to me if there were anything more than a very indirect relationship, i.e., Tesla owners are high income (they have to be), and often tech people, and maybe this demographic is less religious. If so, there would also be the same relationship of atheism to, oh, I don't know, expensive homes, yachts, European vacations.

 

[Rheazombi]

I just don't think all religious people are the same, so it's hard to find correlations sometimes. There are religious people in various fields of science, but there are tons of religious people who are staunchly anti-science and they act as though science is a direct threat to their beliefs. They don't just believe in God, they go one step further and believe everything in the bible must be true. These are the kind of people who flat out scare me, especially when they hold political positions of power. I'm inclined to believe this type of religious person is less likely to own a Tesla.

To be fair though, I have also met some crack pot liberals who are ALSO anti-science (anti vaxxer, homeopathy types). Of the ones I have met they were also anti Tesla and anti-green technology if you can believe it.

I think the lesson here is that if you are anti science you are probably anti Tesla, regardless of your religious views. However, it's silly to pretend that the majority of anti science people aren't also usually religious. Especially in the USA, this is true way too often :/

 

[Canuck]

I admired the relationship between atheist, Christopher Hitchens, and Dr. Francis Collins, a geneticist with very strong religious views. Those two debated each other as adversaries about whether God exists but were friends. In fact, Dr. Collins had Hitchens' entire genetic make up mapped and he received a new treatment that targeted his own damaged DNA but unfortunately it didn't save him from his cancer.

None of us know for certain if god exists. I don't believe in god but I admire many people who do, including my family members and close friends. The important point, as I see it, is not to impose our beliefs on others. We are all stuck here for a very limited time and that time will be better for all of us if we focus on matters that unite us, rather than divide us. Treat others as we wish to be treated -- which was part of Christ's message -- if I dare say that as an atheist.

 

[NigelM]

I don't believe in god but I admire many people who do, including my family members and close friends. The important point, as I see it, is not to impose our beliefs on others. We are all stuck here for a very limited time and that time will be better for all of us if we focus on matters that unite us, rather than divide us. Treat others as we wish to be treated -- which was part of Christ's message -- if I dare say that as an atheist.

I do believe in God but I admire many people who don't, including my family members and close friends. The important point, as I see it, is not to impose our beliefs on others. We are all stuck here for a very limited time and that time will be better for all of us if we focus on matters that unite us, rather than divide us. Treat others as we wish to be treated -- which was part of Christ's message -- and I'm as happy to say that as my friend Canuck who's a declared atheist.

 

[Beryl]

Source: Scientists data from Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

Interesting studies. Not simple to parse out mathematicians from the data. One sample of "scientists" had a disproportionately low number. If mathematicians are more "religious" that could skew those results.

 

[Electroman]

Our understanding of the cosmos, science of geology and the theory of evolution - these three have done more damage to shake the pillars of religion than anything in history.

Having said that many now believe that there is strong evidence through ancient Sanskrit scriptures (dating back to 2000 BC) that there was a healthy level of respect and understanding of science in Hinduism - atomic science, size of universe, galaxies, theory of relativity and the age of the earth. Don't get confused between superstitions, rituals with deep Hindu philosophy which I believe is not in variation with fundamental science. Of course IMHO.

I have never seen an anti-science debate among Hindus. All bodes well for Tesla and EVs in the 2nd most populated country in the world. .. If only they can beef up the electric infrastructure.