I think its impossible to have a monthly credit under NEM3. Perhaps with PWs - maybe
Looks like a NEM 3.0 homeowner better get used to paying a boatload of money each month in fixed costs and import fees for having put solar on their roof ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I think its impossible to have a monthly credit under NEM3. Perhaps with PWs - maybe
You made me look. I am still on EVA but NEM 2. True up is end of July. So far I have used a net 3600 kWh and last months bill (December) was $428. But ...I was right at net zero on credit when December began, so that and the rest of the winter will chew into my true-up, which closes at the end of March. Time to pay the piper. December was a rough month, to be fair. Super cold and very cloudy.
I purposely did battery backup because I do not want to use gas or propane for a generator.
Hey, it is energy savings and not ROI. Also, government agencies are also worried about PG&E price increases.In the first year of operation, the Project would yield 37,674 kilowatt-hours (kWh) and $8,475 in energy savings. Over the 30- year lifetime of the installed equipment, the District would realize 999,183 kWh and $410,560 in energy savings. The 30-year net project savings (i.e. total savings minus total project cost) equals $294,369. If Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) were to increase its prices at a rate above historical averages as a result of its bankruptcy and potential fire-related liabilities, the Project’s savings would be even greater.
But, what about the reduced transmission and distribution fees that will raise the rates for the children and seniors?CHILD IMPACT
This action positively impacts the Every Child Healthy indicator. When the South Santa Clara County Fire District conserves energy through efficiency, reduces demand, and the implementation of renewable energy sources it helps to create a healthier environment and sustainable future for children in the community.
SENIOR IMPACT
The South Santa Clara County Fire District’s practice of conserving energy through reduced demand and the use of renewable energy sources has a positive impact on seniors by creating a healthier environment for seniors in the community.
Would anyone spend their own money on something with a 30 year ROI? Not me, and this does not assume things like stuff failsA local story popped up in my Google news feed about the Gilroy Fire Department getting a $100,000 grant to install solar + ESS to reduce costs (total project is $125,000). Interesting tidbits from the staff report
Hey, it is energy savings and not ROI. Also, government agencies are also worried about PG&E price increases.
But, what about the reduced transmission and distribution fees that will raise the rates for the children and seniors?
There isn't any mention of the actual system size, but based on the yield, location and roof orientations, I think this is around a 27 kW array.
I found the project bid details (starts on page 34) and it is 24.51kW array composed of 57 panels Hanwha Q.PEAK DUA L-68.2 430W for $93,333 or $3.81/kw. The ESS is a single 4kw/10 kWh battery with a price of $25,558 (wow that's expensive) and for some reason they get a SGIP payment of $2,700 taking it down to $22,858.Would anyone spend their own money on something with a 30 year ROI? Not me, and this does not assume things like stuff fails
Its not a 30 year payback. Its a $300K savings over 30 yrs. ROI is much shorterWould anyone spend their own money on something with a 30 year ROI? Not me, and this does not assume things like stuff fails
Why would anyone spend their own money on a game where your opponent is allowed to change the rules in the middle of the game? As an example:Would anyone spend their own money on something with a 30 year ROI? Not me, and this does not assume things like stuff fails
Some guys at Costco tried to get me to buy into solar the other day. I told them that if they can get PG&E to give me a promise in writing that:I am going to miss EVA when they kick me off in about 3 years.
In the meantime, you missed out on great opportunities and savings if you would have added solar under NEM2. Even though they may shorten GF to 15 years, everyone on NEM2 would have saved significant moneyWhy would anyone spend their own money on a game where your opponent is allowed to change the rules in the middle of the game? As an example:
Some guys at Costco tried to get me to buy into solar the other day. I told them that if they can get PG&E to give me a promise in writing that:
1. The NEM rules won't change (they already do this), AND
2. My rate plan hours (peak and off-peak) won't change, AND
3. If there are any adjustments to my rates, the peak and off-peak rates can be scaled for inflation but they must both scale together, such that say 1 kW sold during peak time is equivalent to 0.6 kW drawn during peak time, regardless of the absolute numbers involved
...for the entire duration of the NEM contract, then I will consider it. That shut them up pretty quickly.
I should point out that even for people on NEM1, who have been essentially allowed to use the grid as a 100% efficient battery, were never protected against the complete elimination of the tiered rate plan itself.
This business of discontinuing rate plans and forcing people onto new ones during the duration of the contract has to stop, or I will not install solar.
Agreed. My savings to date have paid off my panels, and even though I was forced onto EV2-A I am still saving an awful lot of money vs. using the grid entirely. Plus, I own the system so if I decide I want to do some kind of power segregation in the future, I have options.In the meantime, you missed out on great opportunities and savings if you would have added solar under NEM2. Even though they may shorten GF to 15 years, everyone on NEM2 would have saved significant money
Yep, which is why I added so much solar. was talking to the wife last night. we LOVE our mini split heat pumps, running from the solar. My house is a nice 68 to 74 degrees, depending on which room we are in since each room in a zone now. Love in the summer we can keep like 72 to 74. AND, I have a negative energy bill for my house at 99% electric! 15 years, I may not even still be alive.In the meantime, you missed out on great opportunities and savings if you would have added solar under NEM2. Even though they may shorten GF to 15 years, everyone on NEM2 would have saved significant money
Possibly, but I also didn't miss out on the ROI from investing the money in something else. That part of the equation often gets overlooked. And in any case, I think whatever the calculated payback period is, you should get an agreement in writing from the utility that they're not going to change anything that affects the payback period until the payback period ends. I'm not putting money into something with an 7-8 year payback period if I only have assurances that PG&E isn't going to change anything for the first 3 years.In the meantime, you missed out on great opportunities and savings if you would have added solar under NEM2. Even though they may shorten GF to 15 years, everyone on NEM2 would have saved significant money
My payback is slightly less than 5 years.Possibly, but I also didn't miss out on the ROI from investing the money in something else. That part of the equation often gets overlooked. And in any case, I think whatever the calculated payback period is, you should get an agreement in writing from the utility that they're not going to change anything that affects the payback period until the payback period ends. I'm not putting money into something with an 7-8 year payback period if I only have assurances that PG&E isn't going to change anything for the first 3 years.
My payback is slightly less than 5 years.
ROI over 15 years is 21%. ROI over 10 years is 17%
I'm comfortable knowing that very few investments have that return
Looks like he used himself as an exampleLol Zabe is going to use you as an example of how you're not paying your fair share... the IOUs want you to have a 0 ROI to be "fair to everybody."
The ROI for my installation is basically zero under NEM 2.0 since Powerwalls cost so much and I didn't have Tesla's cutthroat pricing.
Personally I just hated PG&E so much that I would rather pay a boatload to anybody not named PG&E. I feel not paying P&GE has an intrinsic benefit lolol. Oh, and running the ACs at 5pm and doing a load of laundry at 7pm is nice.
Edit, I miss the good ol' days when Sunrun would sell people solar by making them dislike PG&E hahaha. The psychology was to convince customers that "PG&E was punishing them for using the grid." But in reality do we really need convincing that PG&E sucks? Fun times.
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I agree that NEM2 is very favorable to Solar. However, it was meant to be to encourage solar. NEM3 (as currently proposed) will discourage solar and kill the residential market. Is that what we (you) want? If we (you) still want residential solar, then what is a fair payback? To me, it has to be <10 years.Looks like he used himself as an example
I agree with you, I would spend $10,000 just not to pay Pacific Graft and Extortion $100.Lol Zabe is going to use you as an example of how you're not paying your fair share... the IOUs want you to have a 0 ROI to be "fair to everybody."
The ROI for my installation is basically zero under NEM 2.0 since Powerwalls cost so much and I didn't have Tesla's cutthroat pricing.
Personally I just hated PG&E so much that I would rather pay a boatload to anybody not named PG&E. I feel not paying P&GE has an intrinsic benefit lolol. Oh, and running the ACs at 5pm and doing a load of laundry at 7pm is nice.
Edit, I miss the good ol' days when Sunrun would sell people solar by making them dislike PG&E hahaha. The psychology was to convince customers that "PG&E was punishing them for using the grid." But in reality do we really need convincing that PG&E sucks? Fun times.
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