Coronavirus

[golfcart]

That last statement is overly broad. The recent study I posted on this thread in the last several days shows that a first infection with Delta in the fall might not give you very good protection from being re-infected with Omicron now. However, we know from other studies that getting a booster (3rd shot) of an mRNA vaccine during the same timeframe would likely be quite a bit more protective against infection now.

It might be based on recent data only for boosted 3 shot folks. I’ll have to look at what you posted. Last I checked fully vaccinated was still defined as 2 shots though… that is what people are getting fired over. Plus at this point most are getting infected with omicron which provides broad immunity against all known variants from what I’ve read. So you’d need a matrix to sort all the scenarios and figure out what’s optimal. But I’d gladly concede that my statement is overly broad in some specific scenarios though I’d defend it as a general statement.

Having said that, the longer this goes on the harder it will be to claim that one group is better than the other. Well all catch it multiple times over the next year or two regardless of our vaccination status most likely. And people who’ve had multiple strains will likely have pretty solid immunity with or without vax help.

I’ve had 3 shots of Moderna and had the virus in between my second dose and booster… I imagine I’m about as protected as you can be at this point. I honestly have no fear of catching it at this stage if the game any more than any of the other stuff my kid might bring home from school. I tell anyone who’s not vaccinated to get vaccinated I just don’t want to fire people over it and don’t feel particularly special because I know I can still catch it and give it to others.

 

[Double-O]

Terminating jobs is the worst part of it all, especially the hospital workers. I wonder how all those (non medical field) individuals feel now knowing that they were terminated over mandates and now there is no longer a mandate (besides medical staff). Some companies have taken it upon themselves to enforce their own vax mandate so some people are still getting terminated.

 

[JRP3]

She used a fashion, 2 layer cloth mask, the type that most people wear.

So basically the worst type of mask, especially against Omicron, and your conclusion is that masks don't work
That's like saying a home made bullet proof vest didn't work so any bullet proof vest won't work.
If you did any research you'd know that a cloth mask provides about 1 hour or less of protection. It might be OK for a quick trip to the store but that's about it.

 

[nwdiver]

Terminating jobs is the worst part of it all, especially the hospital workers. I wonder how all those (non medical field) individuals feel now knowing that they were terminated over mandates and now there is no longer a mandate (besides medical staff). Some companies have taken it upon themselves to enforce their own vax mandate so some people are still getting terminated.

.... maybe.... maybe they should just grow up and get vaccinated?


I'm just glad we weren't infested with so many idiots ~50 years ago. I got the smallpox vaccine... it sucked. It would really suck if we hadn't eradicated it with a robust vaccine program.

 

[Double-O]

.... maybe.... maybe they should just grow up and get vaccinated?

If hospital workers who end up testing positive can continue to work and do not have to stay home and quarantine, then unvaxxed individuals should be able to keep their jobs. Getting vaxxed shouldn't be the ONLY option. Hell, test em all daily. That makes a ton more sense than terminating them. Don't complain about hospital staff shortage when none of them needed to be terminated in the first place. They were working n helping people since day 1. Nothing would have been different by them continuing to work.

 

[nwdiver]

If hospital workers who end up testing positive can continue to work and do not have to stay home and quarantine, then unvaxxed individuals should be able to keep their jobs. Getting vaxxed shouldn't be the ONLY option. Hell, test em all daily. That makes a ton more sense than terminating them. Don't complain about hospital staff shortage when none of them needed to be terminated in the first place. They were working n helping people since day 1. Nothing would have been different by them continuing to work.

..... or..... just get vaccinated.... I've had 3 shots. It's not a big deal. People need to grow up.

I don't like wearing pants to the store... but I have to.... society has standards.

And if terminations drive more vaccinations that has benefits to staffing too. Turns out you can't work if you're dead.

State trooper who told off Inslee over vaccine mandate dies from COVID


It's too bad the WSP didn't institute their mandate earlier.... they would likely have one more trooper....

In the statement his family wrote, "Eric was a loyal member of the Washington State Patrol and took an oath to follow the legal directives of the Governor. We are quite sure he would have followed the vaccine mandate direction had he had the chance.

The vaccine is free.... people need to stop behaving like children... just get vaccinated.

 

[wdolson]

‘Pandemic of the unboosted’: low US Covid jab uptake piles pressure on hospitals

FT article. Direct link doesn't work for me w/o subscription. The above is from a Twitter thread and that works (for me) [ on.ft.com/3g8Es1x ]

U.S. COVID hospitalizations would be halved with European vaccination rates, analysis finds

"Almost half of the US Covid-19 hospitalisations this winter could have been averted if the country had matched the vaccination coverage of leading European countries, according to a Financial Times analysis of the Omicron variant’s impact on either side of the Atlantic.
The data show large pockets of unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people in the US have placed more pressure on hospitals during the Omicron wave than in European nations with higher immunisation rates. The analysis supports the findings of scientists and accounts of frontline medics who say lower vaccination levels are perpetuating the pandemic in the US.
The number of Covid patients in US hospitals on January 19 would have peaked at 91,000 instead of 161,000 if the US had the same rates of vaccine coverage in each age-group as Denmark, 100,000 if the US had matched the UK, and 109,000 if the US uptake rates looked like Portugal’s, the analysis showed.
Across the seven months since July, spanning the Delta and Omicron waves, US daily patient numbers would have averaged 39,000 — rather than the 80,000 recorded — had its vaccination coverage tracked that of Portugal."

Whew.
Just glad that - at least according to some people - in the US this won't lead to increases in taxes or health insurance like it will for those in countries with socialized medicine.

---
Edited to add the 'The Week' link

I know that was sarcasm, but most Americans who have health insurance have it through work. I pay my own way and it's gone up sharply. My health insurance premiums are more than my mortgage.

No, I wasn't wearing a mask. She used a fashion, 2 layer cloth mask, the type that most people wear. Of course, she took off the mask for shower, sleep and when she was away from me and the kids. I personally think that the majority of commonly used masks are useless. Sure, there are better masks but at least around here you don't see many use the N95 or better masks. I'm not a believer in masks. The commonly used masks may have somewhat of a chance to lower infection risk but it's nowhere close to sufficient. I've said this before, this should be treated like the flu. Eventually the combination of natural immunity and vaccinations will create a sufficiently immune population. COVID19 is here to stay. It won't be eliminated, even if 100% are vaccinated. I personally never wear any masks, unless mandatory at a place. Here in Central Florida, the only places where you need a mask is clinics and hospitals.
As I said, those who are at risk should get as many boosters as makes them feel safe. At this point, considering that I'm having an active infection, this should boost my resistence to future infection in combination with my 2 shots of Pfizer that I had in May/June. Of course, I don't want to "endanger" those at risk but we can't run around with masks and get 5 shots every year because of this pandemic. COVID19 at this point is like another strain of the flu. It's here to stay. Death rate will keep dropping as more and more become immune via various methods.

The virus can hang in the air for hours after getting deposited in the air. She was putting virus in the air when showering, eating, sleeping, and brushing her teeth. With central heat those particles can be spread around the house. On top of that if the mask had any leaks around the edges, that's spreading virus too.

Omicron is one of the most contagious diseases we've ever encountered. It spreads like nothing we've ever seen except measles (and virtually none of us have any experience with that because of the vaccination of the population).

Exposure is cumulative. If masking is good enough to reduce the risk to 10%, that's with one exposure like passing someone close in a store. When you're indoors with someone positive all the time, that's a constant low level risk that's constantly repeating. The virus only needs to find your mucus membranes once and you have it.

 

[FloridaSun]

So basically the worst type of mask, especially against Omicron, and your conclusion is that masks don't work
That's like saying a home made bullet proof vest didn't work so any bullet proof vest won't work.
If you did any research you'd know that a cloth mask provides about 1 hour or less of protection. It might be OK for a quick trip to the store but that's about it.

I understand that there are much better masks but hardly anyone here uses them.
Also, many people are sick of wearing them. What was it initially? 2 to 3 weeks to stop the spread? What is it now? 2 to 3 years?

 

[FloridaSun]

I know that was sarcasm, but most Americans who have health insurance have it through work. I pay my own way and it's gone up sharply. My health insurance premiums are more than my mortgage.



The virus can hang in the air for hours after getting deposited in the air. She was putting virus in the air when showering, eating, sleeping, and brushing her teeth. With central heat those particles can be spread around the house. On top of that if the mask had any leaks around the edges, that's spreading virus too.

Omicron is one of the most contagious diseases we've ever encountered. It spreads like nothing we've ever seen except measles (and virtually none of us have any experience with that because of the vaccination of the population).

Exposure is cumulative. If masking is good enough to reduce the risk to 10%, that's with one exposure like passing someone close in a store. When you're indoors with someone positive all the time, that's a constant low level risk that's constantly repeating. The virus only needs to find your mucus membranes once and you have it.

So, in the end, there's not much you can do to avoid infection if you are in the same household with someone infected. Luckily, no elderly people in our household. My immune system has always done a great job. In the last 30 years of working, I missed maybe 10 days due to sickness total. I'm still working remotely for my employer. Not taking any sick days. No reason to. I feel great. Hard to tell how much of that is the result of a good immune system and how much due to the vaccination. I'm sure it helped.

 

[JRP3]

I understand that there are much better masks but hardly anyone here uses them.
Also, many people are sick of wearing them. What was it initially? 2 to 3 weeks to stop the spread? What is it now? 2 to 3 years?

No excuse for not using a proper mask now.
Long before covid people had jobs where they wear masks all day long every day. Somehow they didn't whine and complain the way some people do if they have to wear a mask for half an hour in a store.

 

[wdolson]

I understand that there are much better masks but hardly anyone here uses them.
Also, many people are sick of wearing them. What was it initially? 2 to 3 weeks to stop the spread? What is it now? 2 to 3 years?

Around here most people still use masks and the infection rates are lower than many places in the country. They do slow the spread, at least in public places where people have only brief contact.

So, in the end, there's not much you can do to avoid infection if you are in the same household with someone infected. Luckily, no elderly people in our household. My immune system has always done a great job. In the last 30 years of working, I missed maybe 10 days due to sickness total. I'm still working remotely for my employer. Not taking any sick days. No reason to. I feel great. Hard to tell how much of that is the result of a good immune system and how much due to the vaccination. I'm sure it helped.

If one person in a household gets it, probably everyone is getting it. Though not always. My neighbor said all three of his kids got it at once and neither he nor his wife got it. They tested almost every day. His wife is paranoid about it because she had cancer just before the pandemic.

Having a good immune system and good overall health helps a lot. Though it's no guarantee. Some people who are otherwise healthy have died from this and the bulk of people who got long COVID were in good health. But most of the people who got seriously ill are those who had some kind of underlying condition like a heart problem, cancer, lung problems, diabetes, obesity, etc.

 

[AMPd]

I soured on Elon when he was making promises that Tesla wasn’t keeping, then doubling down and still not coming through.

But Elon throwing up the middle finger to the government is actually making me a fan again, why? Because **** the government and their BS COVID vaccine mandates.

 

[RD36]

I soured on Elon when he was making promises that Tesla wasn’t keeping, then doubling down and still not coming through.

But Elon throwing up the middle finger to the government is actually making me a fan again, why? Because **** the government and their BS COVID vaccine mandates.

 

[RD36]

I will have to respectfully disagree. My wife is a physician and as such what she and her staff endured during this pandemic has been far more than I could ever tolerate! Every entity, group, even this forum has rules of conduct that must be adhered to in order to remain in good standing and participate. Society at large is no different. We are all responsible to one another in an open society. And that requires sacrifice and adherence. Freedom is not free of responsibility.

 

[FloridaSun]

No excuse for not using a proper mask now.
Long before covid people had jobs where they wear masks all day long every day. Somehow they didn't whine and complain the way some people do if they have to wear a mask for half an hour in a store.

I stopped wearing masks when everyone had a chance to get vaccinated. People had a chance to get sufficient protection via vaccination to minimize the risk to their life. Most or all anti vaxxers don't even want others to protect them.
COVID will not go away. It's here to stay and I certainly won't run around with a mask for the rest of my life. Anyone who wants the vaccine can get it.

 

[FloridaSun]

Around here most people still use masks and the infection rates are lower than many places in the country. They do slow the spread, at least in public places where people have only brief contact.



If one person in a household gets it, probably everyone is getting it. Though not always. My neighbor said all three of his kids got it at once and neither he nor his wife got it. They tested almost every day. His wife is paranoid about it because she had cancer just before the pandemic.

Having a good immune system and good overall health helps a lot. Though it's no guarantee. Some people who are otherwise healthy have died from this and the bulk of people who got long COVID were in good health. But most of the people who got seriously ill are those who had some kind of underlying condition like a heart problem, cancer, lung problems, diabetes, obesity, etc.

Diabetis, Untreated high blood pressure and obesity are certainly risk factors. I would be curious to see the medical records of those who were not in a high risk demographic to see what lead to their complications. I once read that many of them had vitamin D deficiency.

 

[JRP3]

I stopped wearing masks when everyone had a chance to get vaccinated.

I stopped too for a short time last summer after being fully vaccinated, until we saw more and more breakthrough infections, then I started wearing them again. Easy enough for me to wear a mask, it's simply not the huge problem certain people pretend it to be.

 

[Jeff N]

Plus at this point most are getting infected with omicron which provides broad immunity against all known variants from what I’ve read.

Where have you read that?

It’s probably too early for any comprehensive studies to have been published showing how recovery from Omicron infections protect against other past variants.

In fact, there is just now an early non-reviewed study purportedly showing that recovered Omicron infections might not even provide great protection against Omicron re-infection.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1488321416755761154

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt though

I was simply responding to the literal text of your post. I think when trying to make a point you simply chose phrasing to support that point (phrasing which rendered the statement false).

So, in the end, there's not much you can do to avoid infection if you are in the same household with someone infected.

I know multiple people (boosted) who have successfully avoided infection from an individual in their own household. I hope you remain asymptomatic and everyone makes a full recovery. I’d recommend getting boosted a few weeks after your recovery, particularly if you remain asymptomatic. It’s very important to complete your vaccination series.

A link for the context behind Denmark’s lifting of restrictions. I think it largely makes sense, given the specifics of their situation. It’s a place the US could be as well, but sadly the freedom lovers have rendered it not possible for the time being.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1488392005281628160

If another variant comes along which is worse, the gov’t can tighten up again, if necessary, and still get credit and gain trust with the governed.

Excellent news; this appears to be the highest risk group amongst children, and great to see they will have protection soon:

Pfizer vaccine for children under 5 could be available soon: report

Pfizer and BioNTech are reportedly close to submitting a request for emergency authorization for a COVID-19 vaccine that can be administered to children under the age of 5.Sources familia…

thehill.com

 

[golfcart]

Where have you read that?

That’s what was going around in the media.

Protection against delta

India study

It’s obviously early though this is all preliminary and could change. As you have shown it may have already changed.

We’re chasing a moving target. Early evidence indicates that BA.2 evades vaccine immunity better than the existing omicron and spreads more readily among highly vaccinated populations. It also appears to show higher viral loads in unvaccinated. But unvaccinated does not break down previous infections and what variants as far as I can tell. It’s a game of whack a mole and with each strain it gets harder to isolate who’s already had what shots and who’s already had what strains or what combination of shots and strains.

BA.2 evades vaccines