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coming to a stop smoothly

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What do you talk about? What jolt?

There is no jolt when stopping in my ICE, nor was there while I was testdriving MS, not with creep disabled, not with creep enabled.
Moments when I need the car to stop are far less frequent than moments when I need the car to only really slow down and then speed up again.
Those few moments when I want it to stop, i gently push the brake pedal and it smoothly stops.

Maybe you just slam the brakes a bit too hard?
 
I would be interested to know if anyone who has the same issues as the OP (and the OP) have creep enabled or disabled on their MS. If you all have it enabled, perhaps you should try disabling it to see if it improves the smoothness of your complete stops. MW

I had creep turned on for a few days in the beginning when I got the car but have it off ever since.

But I too would like to be able to coast more easily. I'm not sure what would be the best way to achieve this, but one idea would be letting the zero point of the accelerator be a narrow zero zone instead of a point. Then it would be easier to find. Maybe one could add selectable accelerator curves or driving modes. But as flashflood says, the testing required might make this impossible.

Testing this definitely isn't the prohibitive factor. Everything in a car has to be tested to work safely. Every new firmware version has to be tested and it has a lot more features, much more elaborate than a smooth stop feature.

Regarding coasting, I think that's another one of those ICE habits that we can't let go. In an ICE car it does make sense to disconnect the engine from the wheels (pressing the clutch or going in neutral) and letting it coast as the gas engine would slow the car down or need some gas just to keep it's RPM steady. So we learned to do this in order to get a little more efficient.
EVs doesn't really have that problem. The electric motor doesn't slow down the car when it's idle. You give it just enough power to keep the car at it's speed and that's the most efficient way to drive. When it comes to going downhill, it clearly is more efficient to use regen. Letting it coast down in neutral will draw zero power and you get the miles for free. Using regen will feed back some power and you also get the miles for free. Clearly you are better off using regen.
 
When it comes to going downhill, it clearly is more efficient to use regen. Letting it coast down in neutral will draw zero power and you get the miles for free. Using regen will feed back some power and you also get the miles for free. Clearly you are better off using regen.

That's a rather incomplete analysis. "Clearly" with the regen you have recovered some energy that you don't if you're coasting. But that energy didn't come from nowhere, it was a result of slowing the car down. So at the end you are going slower. Furthermore, the regenerative brakes are not 100% efficient, which suggests - at first glance, anyway - that it is better to coast!

(It gets complicated because you have to consider the speeds involved. I think it's more efficient to coast down a hill if the speed at the end isn't too large. But I don't have any accurate enough experimental evidence to say one way or the other. I would recommend just leaving the cruise control on and let it adjust the power while the car stays at the same speed. It's probably close to as efficient as you'll get, and it means that you are always going the desired speed regardless of hills. Very easy, very smooth, very simple.)

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Yes it would use a tiny bit of power to make the car stop. It's so little that it's insignificant in terms of energy usage.

I wasn't worried about energy usage, my point was just that it's more complicated.


It's just continuing the concept of driving the car with one pedal, from start to stop, 100% smooth. BMW did it for a reason and is getting great feedback on it. [..]
Fading out regen is, again, just a technical limitation of electric motors. There is no practial advantage to it, there is no good reason. It is trivial to make the electric motor slow down and stop the car perfectly smooth. [..]

Well, I'd disagree that there is "no good reason" - the reason is that that is the natural behaviour. I also disagree that getting this right is "trivial" - I very much doubt that that is an accurate assessment. What exactly does "foot off pedal" mean now? Does it mean "don't apply power" or "apply power in the opposite direction?" How do you handle the transition?

If it is possible to do it well so that the braking power is smooth all the way to zero car speed, then I'd agree with you, it would be a cool feature, perhaps worth the effort to make available. I would worry about lazy drivers not putting their foot on the brake pedal at stops, however. Whether on level ground or not, when stopped the driver should have their foot on the brake pedal (in my opinion).
 
Exactly.
Nothing "better" then i3 in front of me "regening" to 0 and then rolling back into me....

It doesn't roll back. It engages the brakes once it has come to a complete stop. If you don't know things, maybe it's better not to make negative assumptions.

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But that energy didn't come from nowhere, it was a result of slowing the car down. So at the end you are going slower. Furthermore, the regenerative brakes are not 100% efficient, which suggests - at first glance, anyway - that it is better to coast!

This has been discussed before. Many times. You can search the forum for it. Just a quick example that explains it:

If you go down a 10 mile hill and you coast, the car will speed up to a speed at which the wind drag will match the downhill force. You are rolling down the hill quickly and drive those 10 miles for free.

If you use regen you arrive at the bottom also for free but regen has added energy back to the battery. It is irrelevant how efficient regen is, it is always better in terms of energy than coasting down the hill and letting the energy go to waste in air drag. Regen captures some of the energy back, coasting does not.

Yes, you are going faster coasting, but we are not talking about finding the fastest way to go from A to B. That would be flooring it.
 
It doesn't roll back. It engages the brakes once it has come to a complete stop. If you don't know things, maybe it's better not to make negative assumptions.
For how long?
How strong?

One pedal driving is nice but don't forget there are two pedals: one to "go" and another one to "stop".
What if I just want to slowly cost/roll of some gentle hill? The most intuitive (and efficient also) thing is no creep, no regen around 0. Car is doing what gravity wants it to do and what me pushing the pedals is telling the car to do.
 
Tesla's application of acceleration, regeneration and braking are the most sensible IMO. I wouldn't change a thing there. Just because another company thought it was a good idea to use energy to slow the car doesn't mean it's logical. Creep off, regen normal. If they added such a "reverse motor braking" option, I don't think I'd even test it out.

That said I know what the OP is referring to. I get the same sudden transition between slowing and coming to the complete stop. I've become (I think) adept at transitioning from regen to light braking right around 5mph, maintaining a smooth deceleration. However eliminating the last *umph* as it stops eludes me. I've always been able to stop extremely smoothly in manual ICE cars, and I can reduce the effect in my MS, but can't seem to eliminate it consistently. I think I just need to wear the brakes down a bit more, but that's gonna take a very long time.
 
What do you talk about? What jolt?

There is no jolt when stopping in my ICE, nor was there while I was testdriving MS, not with creep disabled, not with creep enabled.
Moments when I need the car to stop are far less frequent than moments when I need the car to only really slow down and then speed up again.
Those few moments when I want it to stop, i gently push the brake pedal and it smoothly stops.

Maybe you just slam the brakes a bit too hard?

Assume you're driving a manual? The 'jolt' is more of a problem in cars that creep, ie. automatics, as you can never roll to a stop when in gear.
 
Yes, I drive a manual shift ICE.
I tested "creeped" and "noncreeped" MS and none had any "jolts" when I needed to stop at traffic lights.

I don't agree with the OP there is a problem in the MS. Its easy to stop smoothly with slight, modulated pressure on the brakes as needed. +1 on leave the regen the way it is! The more I drive my MS (21,000 miles so far) the more I like how exquisitely engineered the power train is.

And, am I picky about smooth stopping? Yes, my previous car was a BMW 550 with automatic transmission. It had awesome brakes from 100-5 mph, but AWFUL coming to a complete stop. Always jerky and I worked very hard to feather to a stop. Ultimate I figured out that the manual versions did not have this problem (e.g. in neutral) but excess power from the transmission made it near impossible to stop smoothly.

Bottom line: its easy to smoothly stop almost every time with a little attention. I love the brakes and especially the regen. Tesla, don't change a thing!
 
..... Whether on level ground or not, when stopped the driver should have their foot on the brake pedal (in my opinion).

I agree.

One reason is to have your brake lights on, to reduce the chance of some fool rear ending you. Does the i3 keep its brake lights on at a stop without the driver applying the brake pedal?

GSP
 
Not sure about others, but with regen I can come to a complete stop at stop lights, stop signs etc with regen braking only if I time it right (getting pretty good at this). Only time that doesnt work is on hill facing down. Always put your foot on the brake to really stop or you'll roll (forward or back!) but at least for me it seems to be tuned perfectly and I love it.
 
For how long?
How strong?

One pedal driving is nice but don't forget there are two pedals: one to "go" and another one to "stop".
What if I just want to slowly cost/roll of some gentle hill? The most intuitive (and efficient also) thing is no creep, no regen around 0. Car is doing what gravity wants it to do and what me pushing the pedals is telling the car to do.

For how long? Until one presses the accelerator again.

How strong? Strong enough to stop the car even on significant hills. There's probably a limit, but I've not found it yet.

I prefer BMW's approach here. It brings one pedal driving to the next level. You should try it, perhaps you'll like it! Perhaps not, but don't knock it until then.
 
It will be interesting to see if i3's end up shooting out into traffic when they get rear ended just before coming to a complete stop. Just think how good it is to have your foot hovering over the accelerator pedal when you get hit. I'll bet the normal reaction is to plant your foot, thinking you're hitting the brake instead.

Perhaps the car senses a rear-ender and shuts down, but then you might be a sitting duck on the railroad tracks!
 
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Not sure about others, but with regen I can come to a complete stop at stop lights, stop signs etc with regen braking only if I time it right (getting pretty good at this). Only time that doesnt work is on hill facing down. Always put your foot on the brake to really stop or you'll roll (forward or back!) but at least for me it seems to be tuned perfectly and I love it.
I agree.

i was taught to brake and slowly come off the brakes in a controlled way so that there is no jolt on finally stopping. It's how the UK police are (or were when I was young!) learn to drive.

i can only assume OP has an issue with his brakes which is causing them to bind (rust from not being used enough?).
 
I agree.

i was taught to brake and slowly come off the brakes in a controlled way so that there is no jolt on finally stopping. It's how the UK police are (or were when I was young!) learn to drive.....

Same here, I remember driving a Mini Metro with a shallow 'dish' strapped to the hood/bonnet, and a ball rolling around in it. If the ball left the dish, you braked or accelerated too aggressively.