Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[SDRick]

mspohr said: ↑
We all think old Dutch windmills are charming. Why not new windmills?

Really? Charming would not be a word I would use to describe the industrial large turbine wind generators we see today. I'm not saying they do not have their place but the aesthetics, noise and bird kills do not invoke visions of charming for me.

 

[SageBrush]

mspohr said: ↑
We all think old Dutch windmills are charming. Why not new windmills?

Really? Charming would not be a word I would use to describe the industrial large turbine wind generators we see today. I'm not saying they do not have their place but the aesthetics, noise and bird kills do not invoke visions of charming for me.

Is this more to your liking ?

Coal

Oil

 

[JRP3]

mspohr said: ↑
We all think old Dutch windmills are charming. Why not new windmills?

Really? Charming would not be a word I would use to describe the industrial large turbine wind generators we see today. I'm not saying they do not have their place but the aesthetics, noise and bird kills do not invoke visions of charming for me.

I see clean energy, so they look great to me. Bird kills are a non issue in the grand scheme, buildings and cats kill far more, and no one is suggesting we all live underground or kill all cats.

 

[jerry33]

I see clean energy, so they look great to me. Bird kills are a non issue in the grand scheme, buildings and cats kill far more, and no one is suggesting we all live underground or kill all cats.

The only thing that you need to make sure of is that the windmills are not in a migratory bird path or are turned of when the birds are migrating.

The last U.K. numbers that I read about were 55 M birds/year = cats, 2 M = windmills (the latter might be incorrect--going from memory).

 

[Merrill]

Between 140,000 and 300,000 birds are killed from wind, between 350,000 and 988,000 are killed by hitting windows. Plus cats kill billions of birds, you will always find that those who boo who clean energy bring up the bird issue with wind. It is a bummer that any birds are killed but that’s life.

 

[SDRick]

Charming? I suppose an argument can be made....

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm not so sure ...

Huge issues with NIMBYs for ON shore wind, in UK, and equally huge resistance to new Pylons for overground grid.

That's funny! I'm not sure why NIMBYism would stop onshore wind turbines when it couldn't stop coal-fired power plants. There will always be NIMBY's for just about everything but the majority ends up making the decision. There are NIMBY's for solar power and even for cell networks! If NIMBYism prevented progress we would still be living in caves.

I think wind turbines look majestic and futuristic, especially the new breed of large scale turbines that spin slowly in the breeze and look like towering achievements of the human race designed to make life better for all. The primary factor limiting the size of these incredible machines is the need to be able to transport them overland. The bigger they get, the more efficient they are.

 

[nwdiver]

There will always be NIMBY's for just about everything but the majority ends up making the decision.

It's usually the vocal minority that makes the decision.

 

[SageBrush]

think wind turbines look majestic and futuristic

My wife laughs at me when I propose a trip to a wind farm ... but she always agrees to go and enjoys the view almost as much as I do.

 

[winfield100]

The industrial look perhaps?

@jerry33
I notice you are in Texas. ever driven the 30 -40 miles on I-40 from New Mexico east and tried to count the wind turbines? lots of free, manufactured electricity

 

[jerry33]

@jerry33
I notice you are in Texas. ever driven the 30 -40 miles on I-40 from New Mexico east and tried to count the wind turbines? lots of free, manufactured electricity

Yes, there's a lot of them. I actually like the look, but compared to the traditional ones they are industrial looking. There are lots on I-35 as well.

 

[JRP3]

Charming? I suppose an argument can be made...

This looks fine to me

 

[nwdiver]

Charming? I suppose an argument can be made....

View attachment 419640

I agree.... we should stop building the wind turbines we built ~20 years ago

 

[StealthP3D]

@jerry33
I notice you are in Texas. ever driven the 30 -40 miles on I-40 from New Mexico east and tried to count the wind turbines? lots of free, manufactured electricity

Made in the U.S.A.

 

[StealthP3D]

I agree.... we should stop building the wind turbines we built ~20 years ago

There has been some experimenting with different blade designs to maximize production, etc. and some of them look like modern art:



I like the aesthetics of the new breed of gigantic tri-blade turbines but they will probably go the way of the Dodo bird as more efficient designs are developed. I imagine a clean energy future with millions of good paying jobs building and maintaining the infrastructure. With an excess of turbines and photovoltaics, we will have too much cheap energy most of the time. Energy will be so cheap during peak production periods we will think of new ways to use the surplus electricity that were previously uneconomical. Some of it will be used to power huge thermal storage batteries or to pump water into giant reservoirs for generating electricity when the wind stops blowing and the sun is not shining.

 

[StealthP3D]

This looks fine to me

Sailboats are considered beautiful as well. It's impractical to have sails on cars so we put them where they work best and transfer the wind energy into our EV's. The wind may be invisible but it has served humankind well throughout the ages.

 

[nwdiver]

I like the aesthetics of the new breed of gigantic tri-blade turbines but they will probably go the way of the Dodo bird as more efficient designs are developed.

Not sure about that. There's also physics at play. You physically need a larger swept area to capture as much energy as possible. I think the biggest trend in wind is going to be bigger and bigger and bigger. Especially with off-shore. On-shore is frustratingly limited to what can be transported but I think we'll see MASSIVE offshore turbines of ~50MW by 2030 or maybe 2040.

 

[Icer]

I agree.... we should stop building the wind turbines we built ~20 years ago

Fix them?

*
I agree with SDRick.
I loathe the turbines.

Starting to overcome my hardened long term objection to Nuclear,
Gen IV
Uses radioactivity for fuel
No chance of meltdown

I am listening, at this point.
Filtered through a learned distrust of the "too cheap to measure" industry
that seems to have never missed a chance to lie.

Tempted at the thought of a New Manhattan project.
Experts say it is doable

Would a major push get it done?

I remind myself of the enthusiasm for FSD in 2016, all
the experts were basically saying its a done deal.
First problem is I have know way of knowing who is telling me the truth

Driving this thinking is nothing else adds up to what we are going to need.

 

[nwdiver]

Fix them?

*
I agree with SDRick.
I loathe the turbines.

Starting to overcome my hardened long term objection to Nuclear,
Gen IV
Uses radioactivity for fuel
No chance of meltdown

I might support Gen IV nuclear if/when it actually exists (If it's cost effective). Until then I support more wind turbines. I'm a huge supporter of things that actually make a difference by existing. Wind is currently the low cost champion of electricity. The new wind farm near my home is expected to produce electricity for <$20/MWh. Vogtle nuclear plant (if it's ever completed) will cost >$100/MWh....

 

[jerry33]

Fix them?

*
I agree with SDRick.
I loathe the turbines.

Starting to overcome my hardened long term objection to Nuclear,
Gen IV
Uses radioactivity for fuel
No chance of meltdown

I am listening, at this point.
Filtered through a learned distrust of the "too cheap to measure" industry
that seems to have never missed a chance to lie.

Tempted at the thought of a New Manhattan project.
Experts say it is doable

Would a major push get it done?

I remind myself of the enthusiasm for FSD in 2016, all
the experts were basically saying its a done deal.
First problem is I have know way of knowing who is telling me the truth

Driving this thinking is nothing else adds up to what we are going to need.

I used to be pro-nuclear, but now the big problem I see is how much water is required to be heated. The oceans are too warm as it is. Wind power is great because as long as there are temperature differences in the atmosphere, there will be wind. Solar is good too, but it's more expensive than wind, and rooftop solar (the best kind) is not affordable for everyone.