Charging beyond 90% daily

[Turlejay]

I've posted my situation a few times so some people may already know as everyone's been really helpful.

It finally decided to be Winter in Buffalo. I expect the avg temperature to be somewhere between 0-20 F for the foreseeable future.

My Wife commutes 100 miles round trip. Based on what she used when the weather was more mild 40-50 I think she's going to need as much of the battery as we can use daily. I've read so much about how to precondition and properly maintain the battery for longevities sake but in order for this car to do what we bought it for it seems about 10%-95% will just about do it in place of the 25-85 we have been keeping it at.

Would this be concerning over the long haul of ownership? Or should we realize that we are going to take a loss here and have to upgrade sooner than we expected?

 

[joebruin77]

A short answer to your question, IMO, is yes, it would be concerning and I would avoid routinely charging above 90%. I would charge to 90% but no higher. I would then focus on finding a place to charge at or near her work to top off the battery before the return trip home. And/or I would focus on finding ways to increase her efficiency, such as minimizing the use of the heater, keeping the tires inflated sufficiently, etc.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I've posted my situation a few times so some people may already know as everyone's been really helpful.

It finally decided to be Winter in Buffalo. I expect the avg temperature to be somewhere between 0-20 F for the foreseeable future.

My Wife commutes 100 miles round trip. Based on what she used when the weather was more mild 40-50 I think she's going to need as much of the battery as we can use daily. I've read so much about how to precondition and properly maintain the battery for longevities sake but in order for this car to do what we bought it for it seems about 10%-95% will just about do it in place of the 25-85 we have been keeping it at.

Would this be concerning over the long haul of ownership? Or should we realize that we are going to take a loss here and have to upgrade sooner than we expected?

I think it will be fine, and it sounds like you have good reason for it, so I would just do it. Charge to 95%, but try to time it just before departure. And refill from 10% immediately upon arrival home. (It is too bad there is not more flexibility to accomplish complex charging strategies like this automatically.)
Plenty of people have to use their full battery on road trips - so it is fine. They would not give you access to the battery if it were extremely damaging to use it that way. It’s likely a minor effect.

In a cold environment my guess is that the high state of charge will be less stressful anyway. That is a guess - I gather cooler temperatures are better for longevity - that is where I am getting that guess from...

Plenty of people have tons of loss of capacity (like 10-15%) and they have done nothing “abusive” like this (it really is not abusive, as proposed). So may as well just make the car work for you.

Hopefully it will continue to work for you when it loses 5-10% of its capacity (but don’t blame that likely eventuality on this wide charging range choice - it is probably unrelated if it happens - see the hundreds of examples here).

Charge as much as you need to to avoid stress and be comfortable in the winter, and don’t worry about it.

 

[Fadiawesome]

like AlanSubie4Life said, you should be fine as long as you don't leave the car sitting at a high soc. The thing that messes up the batteries the most is leaving them at a high state of charge vs charging them to almost full capacity and then using them. some report say that if left at 100%, a model 3 battery will loose .04% of its capacity per hour after the first hour(seems kinda high to me to be honest). So as long as you don't leave the car sitting with over 90% battery for a long time, you should be fine.

 

[jmaddr]

Maybe I missed it, but by any chance do you have a SR? If so, the consensus is it’s ok to charge higher on these as they are software locked SR+ and 100% isn’t really 100%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Maybe I missed it, but by any chance do you have a SR? If so, the consensus is it’s ok to charge higher on these as they are software locked SR+ and 100% isn’t really 100%.

It’s an SR+.

 

[vogz]

You have an 8 year, 120k mile warranty on the battery. Charge up to what you need and just enjoy it. Too many people freak out about battery degradation on a car they will most likely get rid of before the warranty expires.

 

[Turlejay]

You have an 8 year, 120k mile warranty on the battery. Charge up to what you need and just enjoy it. Too many people freak out about battery degradation on a car they will most likely get rid of before the warranty expires.

My experience after only a month of dealing with Tesla and their warranty is they will cite normality whenever it benefits them

 

[Knightshade]

You have an 8 year, 120k mile warranty on the battery.

Not on an SR+ he doesn't.

SR models are 100,000 miles, (or 8 years, whichever comes first), with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

At 100 miles a day, assuming 5 days a week, that's 25,000 miles a year over 50 weeks- no battery warranty after 4 years.

 

[cypho]

Yes I would be very concerned. But not because I would worry that charging to 90% is going to destroy the car.

Your max range is going to degrade over time. This is not avoidable no matter how you charge. If your commute requires 95%-10% every day today, in a few years it is going to be 100% - 5% every day. And that is cutting it so close that if you get in a traffic jam you will end up stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery.

You may be able to delay it for a while by charging to 90%, but eventually you are going to have to figure out how to charge at work or on the way home.

 

[vogz]

My experience after only a month of dealing with Tesla and their warranty is they will cite normality whenever it benefits them

That has pretty much always been the case with auto makers. It seems to me you bought a car that is not ideal for your wife’s commute if she has to cut it that close on range.

 

[Turlejay]

Not on an SR+ he doesn't.

SR models are 100,000 miles, (or 8 years, whichever comes first), with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.




At 100 miles a day, assuming 5 days a week, that's 25,000 miles a year over 50 weeks- no battery warranty after 4 years.

There's yet another thing I was incorrectly told by the S.A. . When the weather is warmer we won't need nearly as much battery. Between April and September standard charging practice will be fine. Also, I'm not going to keep this car long enough to worry about the warranty. Lastly, we don't expect her commute to stay at this length that long either.

Thanks for all the input

 

[vogz]

Not on an SR+ he doesn't.

SR models are 100,000 miles, (or 8 years, whichever comes first), with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

At 100 miles a day, assuming 5 days a week, that's 25,000 miles a year over 50 weeks- no battery warranty after 4 years.

I was not aware that the SR+ had a shorter mileage warranty than the long range cars. Thanks for the info. All that said, if it becomes an issue and it’s not not to the warranty level of degradation, trade in is a good option as these cars seem to have extremely high residual value.

Yes I would be very concerned. But not because I would worry that charging to 90% is going to destroy the car.

Your max range is going to degrade over time. This is not avoidable no matter how you charge. If your commute requires 95%-10% every day today, in a few years it is going to be 100% - 5% every day. And that is cutting it so close that if you get in a traffic jam you will end up stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery.

You may be able to delay it for a while by charging to 90%, but eventually you are going to have to figure out how to charge at work or on the way home.

I agree with this 100%. The overall issue isn’t battery degradation risk with different charging habits, it’s the fact that the car/commute mix leaves very little margin for error.

 

[Turlejay]

That has pretty much always been the case with auto makers. It seems to me you bought a car that is not ideal for your wife’s commute if she has to cut it that close on range.

Again, this is only an issue in extreme cold. Even then it's just a precaution, she very well might not cut it that close, I just don't want to take the chance until we are absolutely sure. Also, major traffic jams are not really an issue at the times of her drive. Lastly, and sadly, Tesla's placement of the superchargers in relation to Rochester and Buffalo is poor. Best she could do in an emergency is find a level 2 behind a pay to park scenario

 

[Turlejay]

I was not aware that the SR+ had a shorter mileage warranty than the long range cars. Thanks for the info. All that said, if it becomes an issue and it’s not not to the warranty level of degradation, trade in is a good option as these cars seem to have extremely high residual value.



I agree with this 100%. The overall issue isn’t battery degradation risk with different charging habits, it’s the fact that the car/commute mix leaves very little margin for error.

I wish when we laid out our needs and concerns to the S.A. at the pop up event and when we ordered that they would have had more input on the battery. My fault for not leaning harder on the community but I wasn't expecting a car with 260 miles range to have an issue with 100 mile trip. When the S.A. agreed, we moved forward. Again my fault, and I won't make the mistake again.

 

[jjrandorin]

Not on an SR+ he doesn't.

SR models are 100,000 miles, (or 8 years, whichever comes first), with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

At 100 miles a day, assuming 5 days a week, that's 25,000 miles a year over 50 weeks- no battery warranty after 4 years.

To corroborate what @Knightshade is saying:

Vehicle Warranty

For those who dont like to click links, here is the relevant text to support this, from teslas website at the link above:

===========================

Vehicle Warranty

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).
• Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
• Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.

 

[ewoodrick]

I've posted my situation a few times so some people may already know as everyone's been really helpful.

It finally decided to be Winter in Buffalo. I expect the avg temperature to be somewhere between 0-20 F for the foreseeable future.

My Wife commutes 100 miles round trip. Based on what she used when the weather was more mild 40-50 I think she's going to need as much of the battery as we can use daily. I've read so much about how to precondition and properly maintain the battery for longevities sake but in order for this car to do what we bought it for it seems about 10%-95% will just about do it in place of the 25-85 we have been keeping it at.

Would this be concerning over the long haul of ownership? Or should we realize that we are going to take a loss here and have to upgrade sooner than we expected?

Not a problem at all. Somewhere between 90 and 100% you will probably start to get the nag message. If you can stay under that, it makes life a little easier, otherwise just ignore it.

Are there not any locations where she can plug in to "warm her engine block"

So, don't forget that the car is going to try to get you to your destination. If she makes sure that she sets the Nav to route home, it will let her know to slow down when the trip becomes questionable, and possibly route to a Supercharger. This is a conservative guess, so she can probably get well over 20 miles than what it suggests.

Slowing down is often by far the easiest solution for extending range.

Make sure she knows what the alternative charging options are beyond half-way home, in case something doesn't go quite right. Knowing that options exist is often the biggest advantage.

 

[Turlejay]

View attachment 502791

Okay so maybe this is wifeys paranoia. Here's what nav tells me at the moment. Am i to take this at face value? I can tell you the week we bought the car in December under similar conditions she got speed warnings on the way home. She left with 85% that day. This is telling me at 67% that round trip we will have 5% left. Now, accounting for sitting for 8 hours and say heating up for 15-30 minutes before she leaves work, id assume 90% should be more than sufficient.

 

[cypho]

View attachment 502792 View attachment 502791 View attachment 502792 Okay so maybe this is wifeys paranoia. Here's what nav tells me at the moment. Am i to take this at face value? I can tell you the week we bought the car in December under similar conditions she got speed warnings on the way home. She left with 85% that day. This is telling me at 67% that round trip we will have 5% left. Now, accounting for sitting for 8 hours and say heating up for 15-30 minutes before she leaves work, id assume 90% should be more than sufficient.

last Summer I found the navigation charge estimate was very conservative, I would arrive with 10 to 20% more charge then it predicted. But this winter I am finding that navigation charge estimate is optimistic. If the nav predicts I will arrive with 20%, I usually arrive with 10%.

If I saw that screen on my way to work, there is no way I would not find some way to charge before heading home.

 

[vogz]

View attachment 502792 View attachment 502791 View attachment 502792 Okay so maybe this is wifeys paranoia. Here's what nav tells me at the moment. Am i to take this at face value? I can tell you the week we bought the car in December under similar conditions she got speed warnings on the way home. She left with 85% that day. This is telling me at 67% that round trip we will have 5% left. Now, accounting for sitting for 8 hours and say heating up for 15-30 minutes before she leaves work, id assume 90% should be more than sufficient.

That looks much more reasonable. Sounds like your wife might just have some range anxiety with the new car.