Cars, Candidates, Loans, and Bailouts

[vfx]

Smart and well presented.

 

[dpeilow]

Bankruptcy prospect looms for automakers; Bush raises stakes | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

 

[doug]

Just read this headlining the New York Times:

Bush Approves $17.4 Billion Auto Bailout

Carmakers Told to Make Sweeping Changes Next Year

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and DAVID E. SANGER 3 minutes ago

The $13.4 billion in short-term financing and $4 billion at a later date are intended to prevent the collapse of General Motors and Chrysler.

• Times Topics: Auto Industry Bailout | Credit Crisis
• Stocks Rise on Auto Bailout 9:59 AM ET
• 
  Post a Comment | Read (117)

Doug Mills/The New York Times

The president’s plan gives carmakers until March 30 to restructure.

 

[graham]

The money to aid the automakers will come from the Treasury’s $700 billion financial stabilization fund and shortly after Mr. Bush’s announcement, the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., who will oversee the aid to the auto industry, said Congress would need to release the second $350 billion for that program in short order.

So... not from the AMTP that Tesla and others were competing for? This is a good thing for Tesla I assume.

 

[doug]

Well the $25E9 from the ATVM was off the table since the bailout failed to pass in the Senate before Congress ended session some days ago.




.

 

[dpeilow]

It's even the lead story on the BBC 6pm news.


So the ATVM still exists..?

 

[graham]

Well the $25E9 from the ATVM was off the table since the bailout failed to pass in the senate before congress ended session some days ago.

The $700B was off the table over the summer, so I never assume things are solid in Washington. In money and politics things are always... fluid...

 

[doug]

So the ATVM still exists..?

Yes, it passed back in September. It's just the Congress failed to convert it into a bailout without the "advanced technology" part. Actually if you go back to the beginning of this thread you can see how it evolved. (And how Yahoo Finance articles suffer from link rot!)

The $700B was off the table over the summer, so I never assume things are solid in Washington. In money and politics things are always... fluid...

True, but in that case law didn't change. Just how the Executive chose how to enforce it.

 

[just-an-allusion]

In money and politics things are always... fluid...

A surprisingly insightful and intuitive observation.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Is it just me or does the outgoing Pres. look like he's prepping to dodge another shoe...perhaps in preparation for the repercussions this lapse in his judgment (like that's anything new for him) that he made by forcing this so-called "loan" to the auto makers (BTW, I'm taking bets on how long it will take before it's abundantly clear that the auto makers are doing anything with the money but changing their standard of operating practices).

Just out of curiosity...How many here actually voted for this guy?

 

[graham]

A surprisingly insightful and intuitive observation.

Hee... paraphrasing a Joss Whedon line, actually. I take no credit :smile:

 

[graham]

Interesting editorial:

Ten Things The Taxpayer Should Know About The U.S. Auto Industry Now That They Own It - BusinessWeek

During the hearings for an auto bailout, there was plenty said about America’s carmakers and the United Auto Workers. Some criticism was dead on, but much of it was either way off base or exaggerated. As is most often the case when rhetoric and politics rule the day, the truth really lies in nuance. Here’s our Detroit team, David Kiley and David Welch, to sort out the fact from the hot air:

 

[dpeilow]

First it was said Jaguar would get some money soon: BBC NEWS | UK | Motor industry bailout 'due soon'

Now the government is denying it: BBC NEWS | UK | Mandelson downplays Jaguar rescue

So it will probably happen...


Canada is also getting in on the act: Canada to aid car manufacturers


Also, after the EU voted to limit CO2 emissions, car makers are asking for €40bn to help them do it: Driving to a greener future

 

[just-an-allusion]

Hee... paraphrasing a Joss Whedon line, actually. I take no credit :smile:

"Josh Whedon", huh?

Whatever in the hell happened to "Firefly"/"Serendity"?!? Good, ever evolving story lines, great character development...Sheesh! All the good ones end up tossed on the wayside.

 

[dpeilow]

Maybe they can look after themselves (I get the impression that following the Detroit bailout, car makers worldwide thought they would try it on): BBC NEWS | UK | Tata 'to inject cash into Jaguar'

Even Toyota now getting hit: BBC NEWS | Business | Toyota braced for historic loss

 

[malcolm]

Easing of green targets?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21obama.html?_r=1&ref=earth

 

[graham]

Diarmuid OConnell weighs in again on the Tesla Motors site on the outcome of the bailout not touching the ATVMP:

The Right Course: Preserving the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Program - Tesla Think

The White House granted General Motors and Chrysler a reprieve Friday when it authorized $17.4 billion in emergency loans. President Bush said the alternative – the collapse of two American icons – was “not a responsible course of action.”

It’s impossible to say whether loans from the Treasury Department’s $700 billion financial stabilization fund will revive Detroit. No one knows whether Chrysler – which paid off its 1979 bailout loan and handed a nice profit to the federal government – can return from the brink again.

But the administration and Congress clearly charted a “responsible course” in preserving the Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing Program.

 

[WarpedOne]

I find this quote especialy intresting:

In fact, the opposite is true. Tesla, which is already selling powertrains for use in other automakers’ vehicles, has a deeply vested interest in a robust economy and proliferation of viable automakers. If any manufacturer in Detroit, Tokyo or Stuttgart ceases operations, Tesla could lose a potential partner.

Do we know who is already buying Tesla drivetrains?

 

[graham]

Do we know who is already buying Tesla drivetrains?

We do not - other than rumor. The closest thing to any sort of official confirmation was an interview with Elon over the summer where he mentioned that Tesla had a small deal with Daimler which could potentially become a very big deal. But he gave no details as to what that entailed. People here and elsewhere have interpreted this to mean that Daimler is buying Tesla drivetrains, but that has been neither confirmed nor denied by either company.

 

[WarpedOne]

Ah, OK. I was afraid I'm missing on something big.

Sorry for offtopic question :biggrin: