Maybe the car is using the extra kW to run the heating system and warm the pack? That's about 6 kW, IIRC, and might be something you'd expect to be done early in the charging session. I wouldn't think it would have to run for 30 minutes though.
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pcons
M3 AWD+
Yeah, the pack heating is all I can think of. It's definitely longer than you would expect which is why I was wondering if others see the same behaviour. 6-7 kw for 30 min is actually a fair bit of power. Also, it's really not that high of a charge rate compared with supercharging since it's really capped at 50 kw max and supercharging easily gets above that instantly, so it's got me a bit puzzled.
So, curious if others with a model 3 see the cars reported charge rate match the volts x amps the station is reporting right away?
Here's a video of Bjorn Nyland charging on Chademo with a cold battery:
He has an OBD2 cable/adapter and scan my Tesla and you can see the motors being used to heat the battery. That can go on for a long time, as you need a warmer battery for the same charge rate as SoC increases. So you might easily get 50kW at 10% SoC, but to get that same 50kw at 80% SoC you'd need a warmer battery.
He has an OBD2 cable/adapter and scan my Tesla and you can see the motors being used to heat the battery. That can go on for a long time, as you need a warmer battery for the same charge rate as SoC increases. So you might easily get 50kW at 10% SoC, but to get that same 50kw at 80% SoC you'd need a warmer battery.
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pcons
M3 AWD+
Yeah, this correlates with my less quantitative observations. But it still doesn't add up to me why chademo needs so much pack heating (20-30 min in my experience) while supercharging is pretty much always well above 80 kw charge, and even on a 'cold' battery never drops to 35 kw. But my main question was whether what I was seeing is 'normal' or maybe unique to the Ikea station I use sometimes, but it seems it is normal for model 3 + chademo to operate this way.
For reference here's 2 pics I snapped on the weekend but didn't get around to posting. In the charger you can see it's putting out about 40.5kw, but the car only reports 35kw.
Given how long it takes to pre heat though pretty much the whole charging session will be at a reduced rate, unless charging starts at 30% or below.
I don't have much experience supercharging starting at high SoC (what rate would you get if you have cold battery and plug in at 80%?), but two things happen with supercharging.
First charging at 150kW heats the battery up a fair bit, so if you come in with so-so temperature and 10-20% SoC battery will be pretty warm by the time you get to 80%.
Second the 7kW is also used to heat the battery while supercharging (seems as long as battery is below 50C) and there's really no way to measure it without logging equipment.
There is one other possibility and that's that the battery heating algorithm was written with supercharging in mind, and is not optimal for 50kW chademo and heats the battery too much for 50kW charging.
You'd have to do the math but I do think the battery has to be warm to charge at 50kW at 80%. The math you'd have to do (although we don't have all the numbers to crunch) is assuming you set desired charging percentage to 90% is the heating causing the charge time to lengthen (wasting charge power during the first 30 minutes) or is it saving time overall (enabling faster charge rate at the end).
Also I wonder if you set desired charge percentage to 50%, whether it would still waste as much power heating the battery, or if it's smart enough to know you don't need the battery that warm at 50%.
That charger may be limited to ~100A output which really makes it a 40 kW charger. Superchargers have more power available so they can charge faster and still supply the extra 3-8kW for battery pack heating.
pcons
M3 AWD+
That's actually a good point re: the supercharger would heat the pack faster because its cramming more power in per second....so self heating due to charging may be why it isn't as noticeable. But I also think you are correct in the statement about the charging being optimized for superchargers, and perhaps they are being much more conservative with chademo charging because they dont control the charging stations.
I like the 50% max setting test to see if it changes anything. I'll give that a try if I get out there at below 50% and a station is free.....
That charger can definitely go to 120A (I've used it before at that speed). On this particular day it was perhaps limiting itself because it just came off charging a leaf.
pcons
M3 AWD+
So this has got me thinking more that using supercharger preconditioning may help increase chademo rates. I tried it a couple times but didn't see any real change but probably didn't pre condition long enough. I'll give that a try. I can just punch in Burlington supercharger as a destination and ignore it and go to Ikea.
Having come from the volt with such a small battery though there is something fundamental I'm struggling to get over 'wasting' range pre heating the battery on the way to charging
Having come from the volt with such a small battery though there is something fundamental I'm struggling to get over 'wasting' range pre heating the battery on the way to charging
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One thing that I've been doing before heading to my nearby chademo is to set the nav to a supercharger, so the car will start "preconditioning the battery for supercharging", which I assume it's warming up the battery and do whatever it's best for the battery to start taking huge amount of energy, do my errands like drive-through for a coffee... etc and arrive at the chademo about 20min later.
If anyone has a way to manually activate this function, please let me know as I can't find it...
If anyone has a way to manually activate this function, please let me know as I can't find it...
pcons
M3 AWD+
There is no other way to enable it. I've previously tried this and didn't notice much difference, but only waited 5-10 min before chademo charging. I'm curious if 20 min was enough for you that you got the max charge rate when you arrived?
I don't recall exactly the SOC of each time as I usually visit chademo location when I forgot to recharge overnight, was going to drive for more/very close than the available range and not going to be near a charger.
But I do remember that the charging speed varies from 38kw-49kw. I'd pay a closer attention next time and see if I can figure something out.
Manitoba Keith
Member
The Petro Can chargers in Brandon are scheduled to go live this Wednesday Nov 6 if everything checks out. They’d appreciate testers in the late afternoon if anyone is available.
Thanks to @DigAdrenaline.
See the Brandon SuC thread.
Thanks to @DigAdrenaline.
See the Brandon SuC thread.
I tried both of these Ivy chargers on Friday without any luck. Got error code 22 on both devices.
It's my first time using my Chademo adapter, so not sure if anyone has experienced the same red ring on the charge port.
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Xelloss99
Member
Check that the CHAdeMO plug goes ALL the way into the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. It may look like it is in all the way but if you can pull it out without pushing the trigger on the station end of the CHAdeMO cord, it's not in all the way. I had to really push them together hard to get them to click for some stations to work.
Some more going news for @rypalmer !
This work for 2 new Petro-Canada EV fast charging stations has been going on at the Petro in Scarborough
Meanwhile, in PEI, specifically in Souris and O’Leary, 2 other fast chargers coming soon!
This work for 2 new Petro-Canada EV fast charging stations has been going on at the Petro in Scarborough
Meanwhile, in PEI, specifically in Souris and O’Leary, 2 other fast chargers coming soon!
pcons
M3 AWD+
The Bolt and Model 3 in those pictures are going to be waiting a long time before they can start a charge
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