What?
Tesla already said that HW1 can't go to HW3. I'm not sure why you are talking about that.
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Battery life - limited recharge cycles.
- Thread starter Garlan Garner
- Start date
What?
Tesla already said that HW1 can't go to HW3. I'm not sure why you are talking about that.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Key to this conversation is both the longevity and the simple replacement option of the entire power train including the battery. I have a Nissan Altima with 200K miles on it. Its been very reliable so far. But there are so many worn parts in the drive train that I would not feel very confident replacing much because I wouldn't know what was next!(CVT transmission, exhaust, alternator, valvetrain, cooling, etc). The simplicity of the small number of parts in the Model 3 is very appealing. Also, my experience replacing transmissions or engines in ICE vehicles is often they are never the same after a significant transplant like that . I have confidence that replacing either the motor or battery would result in a car that was likely the same or better.
The thing to consider is Tesla would rather sell you a new car versus replacing anything on an old one.
They will find excuses, make it too cost prohibitory and make the new offerings too nice to bother.
It’d nothing to get upset about because everyone else does the same thing.
It’s for us owners to temper our expectations accordingly so we don’t feel let down later.
They no longer provide enhancements to the Roadster and not a single thing done for Tesla’s prior to HW 2.
I expect them to prioritize survival over taking care of legacy owners but I hope they can manage both.
They will find excuses, make it too cost prohibitory and make the new offerings too nice to bother.
It’d nothing to get upset about because everyone else does the same thing.
It’s for us owners to temper our expectations accordingly so we don’t feel let down later.
They no longer provide enhancements to the Roadster and not a single thing done for Tesla’s prior to HW 2.
I expect them to prioritize survival over taking care of legacy owners but I hope they can manage both.
TT97
Active Member
A cycle is 0%-100%-0%, not just each time you charge so unless you are driving 300 miles each day, it is more than 4 years.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
I think the point is that once you have "used up" your battery at 300,000 miles, you can get a new battery for $5K and have the equivalent of a new car since that battery is the only thing that wears out. Unlike an ICE car where it costs significantly more than $5K to replace the engine, transmission, emissions control system, alternator, generator, etc. which all wear out long before 300,000 miles.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
They must be doing a whole lot of battery replacements at the service centers for there to be month long waits. The only difference between an ICE and an EV is the drivetrain, fuel, and exhaust (maybe I could be missing something?). The drivetrain on an EV should be much more reliable but everything else is going to be the same.
seattlite2004
Active Member
The real question is, if the M3 is commercial duty grade and will last to 300k with ease, why the hell is the warranty only 4yrs/50k on the car? That's great that the motors and battery are covered, but its at 1/3 of his recent claim. What does it matter if the power train lasts if the car falls apart in the mean time?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Anecdotal reports are irrelevant.
Most ICE cars are junked before 200,000 miles because the entire drivetrain wears out and is too expensive to replace. (Consumer Reports has actual data which shows 150,000 miles and 8 years.)
Source, esp. for your Consumer Reports claim?
We have some examples of long-lived Priuses at Lifespan/Operating costs.
2 fas 4 u over a Priuschat got rid of his 09 Prius in Jan 2012 at 465K miles. His '12 Prius v wagon replacement didn't do as well. He got rid of at 369K miles. His '14 Prius v wagon was last at 442K miles as of Aug '18 but we haven't heard from him since... not sure what happened.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
ConsumerReports.org
You should be driving down the road with a big smile on your face, because you certainly got your money’s worth from that Camry. Consumer Reports (www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles. Of course, some well-built vehicles can go 15 years and 300,000, if properly maintained.
Car Life Expectancy
The lifespan of this vehicle is mostly calculated in terms of miles covered. However, range can be different for different vehicles. Average lifespan in general is between 165,000 and 200,000. As per the US Department of Transportation, on an average, automobiles have a lifespan of just over 13 years. The standard specification for mileage given by the department is 145,000. The different measures and factors, which play an important in determining the lifespan are as follows.
Try Google, etc. Lots of references give the same range of numbers.
( I personally keep cars until they die. Close to 180,000 miles on my 20 year old Land Rover which is near death.)
A quick search didn't turn up that quote at consumerreports.org. I found that quote at What's the life expectancy of my car? which is from 2006!
Make Your Car Last 200,000 Miles from CR in Nov 2018
BTW, besides the infamously bad Model S drive units until revision -Q, here are some failed Model 3 DU's I collected in my bookmarks + 3 more I found a few days back.
Shoddy quality and poor QC and missing parts..
"Car not Safe to Drive-- Pull over Safely"
"Car not Safe to Drive-- Pull over Safely"
"Car not Safe to Drive-- Pull over Safely"
mspohr
Well-Known Member
You need to learn the difference between anecdote (outliers) and data.
I'll give you some data. I've been on mynissanleaf since mid-2011. I've been on some Leaf FB groups for less time. I can't think of a single instance that a Leaf motor/gearbox assembly has been replaced for failure (loss of propulsion). I can't even think of 8, maybe even 5 that have been replaced for noise.
Yet, we tomsax's data at Two Thirds of Early Model S Drivetrains May Fail By 60,000miles and guys with Model S who have been thru 7+ drive unit replacements (Drive Unit Replacement Poll 6th drive unit replacement and more Drive Unit Replacement Poll) which gives you some idea of some past history, along w/Elon's evolving excuses, excellent drive unit quality (The latest drive unit explanation from 2015), etc.
Sure the Model S DU noise problems seem under control but there still have been failures and I pointed out some to a confused fanboy: Official Tesla Model S thread - Page 348 - My Nissan Leaf Forum.
I pointed you to at least 20 Model 3 DU failures reported here. There have got to be more given that I go on hiatus from TMC sometimes for months at a time and certainly have no time to go actively looking for Model 3 DU failures.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Those are all anecdotes.
You need to learn the difference between anecdote and data.
(Pro Tip: The plural of anecdote is not data.)
I very well know the difference. With enough anecdotes from a large enough sample size, you can at least point out trends. And, with a large enough sample size, you can arrive at conclusions that are statistically significant.
It seems you wish to ignore the large # of anecdotes and data because they don't fit your confirmation bias.
edit: Funny enough, while trying to look for an old quote, it seems I've had the same argument with you before: Fear of the 100,000 miles milestone...in a Tesla.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
She musta' got a lemon. I've never had a Hyundai that didn't go 1.5 million miles or more. In all that time, I've never had to replace a spark plug or coil, engine belt, starter motor, O2 sensor, catalytic converter, air mass meter, PCV valve, air filter, heck, I've never even changed the oil on a Hyundai.
Oh, wait, I've never owned a Hyundai! Actually, her case is believable, she admits she drove it 24/7 (which I'm sure is just a general way to say she drove it continuously, except to eat and sleep for the most part). I mean she averaged 548 miles a day for 365 days for 5 years. And she didn't say how much she spent on replacement parts, oil changes, etc.
But you have to be careful of these fantastic stories of ICE cars that have gone 300,000 miles not needing anything but oil changes. Sure, maybe there's a few of them out there somewhere but that is not most peoples experience. Yet there are a lot of Internet myths about how inexpensive it is to run various models of ICE cars for 250,000 miles or more without ever even needing an engine accessory belt, etc., just an oil change every 10,000 miles. These stories inevitably come from people with either very bad memories or who are just making it up. Wait, who would make something like that up? I mean, it's the Internet!
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