High energy density battery tech is still relatively new. Petrol/diesel isn't going to become less flammable in future, it's kind of necessary for it to be flammable, but batteries can become safer and certainly seems like some of the newer tech will be, but isn't mainstream yet.
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Banning EV's from multi-storeys *sigh*
- Thread starter Craigm86
- Start date
It's an interesting question and may not be properly answered until a few major incidents have occurred. EV batteries will take longer to burn out with potentials for re-ignition and likely greater toxicity in the fumes. The ideal solution to a single EV car fire is 'shove it into a field and leave it alone for a couple of weeks' or 'dump it into a huge tank of water;. Neither of those is going to be an option with a major multi-car incident.
Matters become more worrying in the cases of underground car parks and multilevel parks close to other businesses, where evacuation and return restrictions will necessarily be prolonged.
Matters become more worrying in the cases of underground car parks and multilevel parks close to other businesses, where evacuation and return restrictions will necessarily be prolonged.
AndyWarrington
Member
Not a bad idea really, I think we could all benefit from multi-stories being friendlier to Tesla's (other vehicles too) given their pi$$ poor turning circle, the height of the curbs in such places and the width of some of the lanes in a few. Redesign them all I say!
LiamPope
Member
Sure there's always gonna be a huge weight range for both ICE and EV, and some of the heaviest currently are ICE, but the point is that on average the weight of cars is increasing with EV adoption due to batteries, and that overall average increase is what matters to parking structures. Absolutely right that the capacity of these structures is reviewed and inspected. If they find they need to mitigate load on some structures it ought to be by weight limit or reduced number of vehicles, not anything specific to EVs as that makes zero sense.
Regarding fire, in 2020 the airport car park here in Stavanger caught fire and ended up partially collapsing with several hundred cars destroyed! Norway has very high EV adoption so there was a high proportion of EVs and hybrids in there. The investigation found the fire started with an old ICE and, interestingly, that the overall development and spread of the fire was not more than expected with traditional ICEs. In fact there was little/no evidence of EV batteries directly contributing to the fire by experiencing full-on thermal runaway. I.e. even when an EV catches fire by some external means, it is certainly not guaranteed, nor even likely, that the battery goes up intensely like in those scary thermal runaway incidents you see. The main reasons the fire spread so fast and caused so much damage was lack of automatic fire alarm, lack of fire extinguishing equipment, open facade+wind and spilt liquid fuel from ICEs.
Of course at the time all initial media reports were nothing but 'OMG EV FIRE!!!!'
Regarding fire, in 2020 the airport car park here in Stavanger caught fire and ended up partially collapsing with several hundred cars destroyed! Norway has very high EV adoption so there was a high proportion of EVs and hybrids in there. The investigation found the fire started with an old ICE and, interestingly, that the overall development and spread of the fire was not more than expected with traditional ICEs. In fact there was little/no evidence of EV batteries directly contributing to the fire by experiencing full-on thermal runaway. I.e. even when an EV catches fire by some external means, it is certainly not guaranteed, nor even likely, that the battery goes up intensely like in those scary thermal runaway incidents you see. The main reasons the fire spread so fast and caused so much damage was lack of automatic fire alarm, lack of fire extinguishing equipment, open facade+wind and spilt liquid fuel from ICEs.
Of course at the time all initial media reports were nothing but 'OMG EV FIRE!!!!'
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I've read that in multiple places, but I'm not sure about it. The contra point I see raised is that most EVs on the road are relatively young, and most ICE fires are on older / poorly maintained ICE vehicles. Battery manufacturing defect can cause a short (i.e. on a relatively new vehicle) ... so might perhaps be a comparison of Apples and Pears.
But that aprt, surely EVs will presumably still be allowed into Victorian car parks (if there are any!) ... just not into anything built in the last 40 years which were built to the minimum possible standard and now will have to incur the rebuild cost all over again. Just like the Forth road bridge - when I went with my Parents to Edinburgh, in short trousers, the Forth road bridge was being built - we saw it from the ferry, along with the Victorian rail bridge ... which is still there, and the Forth road bridge no longer fit so a brand new one has had to be built alongside it. We need to stop cutting everything to the bone and engineer in some come-in-handy.
The footings on my house are the opposite. Ridiculously deep because there is tree the other side of a massive concrete raft. Building Inspector and Engineer covering their front, back and both sides <sigh> Gawd help anyone that ever needs to take those footings out.
I have raised this on another forum, and also directly commented on the Consulting company who recommended this (Stripe Consulting, Chris Whapples) that its rediculous they are singling out EVs. The issue is the original 50’s & 60’s car parks were designed for the Austin Allegros, ford cortina’s etc all weighing under 1000kg.
Take a new Mini Cooper, and your looking at over 1000kg and that’s for a small car in the current market. Take a small SUV the Nissan Juke, gross weight 1765. Nissans EV equivalent the Leaf gross weight is 1995kg.
Not much more when you take in to consideration the jump between 60’s cars and the standard modern cars. EV are a little but heavier, expecially the SUV variants which there are far too many of, but the main problem is ALL vehicles are getting heavier. When most people are in SUVs today, each weghing around 2T or more, no wonder all these old car parks are under review and scrutiny. But dont blame it on EVs. Things like this are more for clickbait i swear.
Take a new Mini Cooper, and your looking at over 1000kg and that’s for a small car in the current market. Take a small SUV the Nissan Juke, gross weight 1765. Nissans EV equivalent the Leaf gross weight is 1995kg.
Not much more when you take in to consideration the jump between 60’s cars and the standard modern cars. EV are a little but heavier, expecially the SUV variants which there are far too many of, but the main problem is ALL vehicles are getting heavier. When most people are in SUVs today, each weghing around 2T or more, no wonder all these old car parks are under review and scrutiny. But dont blame it on EVs. Things like this are more for clickbait i swear.
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