raynewman
Active Member
Same problem with merging overtaking lanes between Sydney and Brisbane. Although, it does seem to work more now.
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Autopilot Experiences in Australia
- Thread starter Astroboy747
- Start date
Hi alpal - congratulations on your purchase. I am sure the inner grin will be there for quite some time!
My philosophy on the autopilot is this. At this stage it is only programmed to recognise lane markings and keep to the centre of the lane. Apparently when lanes disappear for a short time, it can sort of track the car in front but that is not something to stake your life on of course. My biggest gripe is that it cannot recognise the centre median strip as a lane and so gets too darn close to it without realising it could seriously mount it at a dangerous speed. Also it completely ignores traffic cones or work obstruction thingos in the lane, electronic lane changing markers etc...
Anyway the moral of the story is this. When autopilot is enabled, I will keep my attention focused on the up-coming lane markings on the road. If anything out of the ordinary mundane lane markings arise... ie:
1. Two lanes merge into one;
2. Witches hats on the road;
3. Median strip;
4. Lanes disappear too frequently or for too long;
5. Unusual or peculiar lane markings eg, dashes, triangles, squiggles, whatever...
and noting of course that the above is not an exhaustive list...
...then I will immediately override the autopilot and take control - and I suggest doing it well before the car gets into difficulty! I accept there may be a novelty in pretending that the car can sort of deal with it, or learn, or do its best and only taking over when the car gets into actual difficulty, but the truth is, the actual programming at this stage is just to keep to the centre of a marked lane (yes leaving aside changing lanes which is a nice feature, but not the point of this rant...)
I have noticed that the best way to override the autopilot in anticipation of difficulty is to press the button on the AP stick. That will disengage cruise control as well as steering which means be ready to hit the accelerator to match cruising speed in the event that regen braking is on (and 90% of Tesla drivers have enabled regen braking, a really really cool feature). If you disengage AP by brute force steering - it will NOT disengage cruise control. That is good of course so as not to be rear-ended at the time you take control - but you need to stay alert because intuitively a driver who is not paying attention might think that the car is coming to a stop if AP disengages and you will end-up driving well out of your lane or even off the road!!
So anyway - AP is cool to steer around well-marked lanes - especially S bends (let's face it, who doesn't want to watch the car steering-wheel turn itself?) BUT at this stage, even a guide dog for the blind has more intelligence than AP 7.0 and forget about trusting your life or your families', at this stage I wouldn't even trust my insurance excess on the car figuring out what to do when it encounters any of the above list or other non-programmed stuff!
raynewman
Active Member
Mine seems to be learning merging overtaking lanes.
Understands median strips (maybe Queensland ones are better).
and, in any case, give it a go with the hands ON the wheel (it does seem to learn).
As a wannabe Tesla owner and interested in the AP tech I'm curious to know answers to the following questions.
1. In the US videos of the Mules testing the AP the cars seemed to follow the right hand line on the side of road which
is the shoulder line in LHD America, not so good in Aust as that will mean the car is following the centreline line rather
than the shoulder line. Is that the case or not?
2. how does the AP go in heavy rain events? driving a normal car there are times when the white lines aren't visible!
3. What is the minimum gap in lines that you can drive past before the AP notifies you, I guess from other comments
intersections can be a problem.
It is amazing technology.
1. In the US videos of the Mules testing the AP the cars seemed to follow the right hand line on the side of road which
is the shoulder line in LHD America, not so good in Aust as that will mean the car is following the centreline line rather
than the shoulder line. Is that the case or not?
2. how does the AP go in heavy rain events? driving a normal car there are times when the white lines aren't visible!
3. What is the minimum gap in lines that you can drive past before the AP notifies you, I guess from other comments
intersections can be a problem.
It is amazing technology.
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Agree 99% with this, but I'm also watching the autopilot display to see if what the car sees agrees with what I can see. Any discrepancies, and I'm ready to act immediately.
Autopilot most definitely still requires 100% full attention to the driving task. It's just that now the actual tasks we have to pay attention to are slightly different and less tedious. The overall stress of driving is much less.
[Hence my paranoia that Tesla will take away this fantastic feature.]
So I have a few areas around the southern highlands where I can use Autopilot with a few exceptions like missing lane markings or merged lanes.
The question I have is that often, probably mostly, when I try to guide the car in difficult situations Autopilot disconnects.
I wonder as AP is now off if I am training the car at all when this happens, as I come across these exceptions on a regular basis and it does not seem to me that the car is learning. Am I being too rough, is it normal for AP to disconnect when you try to guide it through a gap in the lane markings?
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It is primarily designed for Highways where there are markings on both sides where it does really well. I've driven from Mittagong to William Street in the city and only had to help it once or twice.
The display in front of you will show any lines it is picking up and they become thicker the more certain AP is of the lane markings.
So by keeping an eye on the display you can often predict when the car will get into trouble and you will need to take over.
Rather than following a line the car tries to centre itself within the lane it has found which can be a bit hairy when you want to give the B Double in the next lane a bit more room. :scared:
It seems to work OK in light rain, but once you can see water running across the road you need to be extra vigilant that AP can see the lanes. That being said it seems to work at times even when I was certain it would lose sight of the lane markings and ask me to take over.
It can't make its way across an intersection, it will drop out, but that's not the environment it was designed for.
The question I have is that often, probably mostly, when I try to guide the car in difficult situations Autopilot disconnects.
I wonder as AP is now off if I am training the car at all when this happens, as I come across these exceptions on a regular basis and it does not seem to me that the car is learning. Am I being too rough, is it normal for AP to disconnect when you try to guide it through a gap in the lane markings?
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It is primarily designed for Highways where there are markings on both sides where it does really well. I've driven from Mittagong to William Street in the city and only had to help it once or twice.
The display in front of you will show any lines it is picking up and they become thicker the more certain AP is of the lane markings.
So by keeping an eye on the display you can often predict when the car will get into trouble and you will need to take over.
Rather than following a line the car tries to centre itself within the lane it has found which can be a bit hairy when you want to give the B Double in the next lane a bit more room. :scared:
It seems to work OK in light rain, but once you can see water running across the road you need to be extra vigilant that AP can see the lanes. That being said it seems to work at times even when I was certain it would lose sight of the lane markings and ask me to take over.
It can't make its way across an intersection, it will drop out, but that's not the environment it was designed for.
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WhiteStar
Member
Yes I wonder too. I presumed that learning would only occur when AP is activated and an exception or a correction occurs. Don't have many hours driving yet but I think it is probably learning constantly regardless of AP being activated or not, not that I can tell yet. Another related question, I wonder when and how often any local corrections are broadcast to the fleet?
Here's my observations on intersections;
If you are following another locked on car generally no problems.
If the intersection is straight but wide and no lane markings AP will try yo cross, but may ask you to take control. The next time you use this intersection AP seems to work fine.
If its a curved or staggered intersection with no lines AP will not work, so take back cobtrol.
Not sure if you guys knew but if you stop behind another car, enable the vehicle hold (pushing harder on the brake), you can actually engage AP and it will track the car in front.
On a side note, did my second auto park today (first in my own car). I stopped it at the last minute because it went to turn and almost hit the rear of the car in front. I tried parking it myself and I couldn't make it in by about half a metre. The parking spot was in reality probably too small. So I don't believe a flaw in the system because it did it the same way I would have parked it but the space was just too small.
On a side note, did my second auto park today (first in my own car). I stopped it at the last minute because it went to turn and almost hit the rear of the car in front. I tried parking it myself and I couldn't make it in by about half a metre. The parking spot was in reality probably too small. So I don't believe a flaw in the system because it did it the same way I would have parked it but the space was just too small.
Drove back from the Southern Highlands today and just before I got on the Hume, the car threw up an error that Autopilit was not available due to camera restriction. How ridiculous I thought as I had washed the car yesterday and I could not see a spot of dirt on the windscreen.
A few minutes later on the Hume Autopilot came back but lane keeping was not as good as normal and would cut out whenever I went under a bridge and the road was in shade, then it cut out completely in the M5 tunnel.
Just my luck I thought for my camera to go bad between Christmas and New Year, looked like an early trip to St Leonards was on the cards until I got home and discovered that the problem was.
It seems that some birds have particularly good aim. :cursing:
A few minutes later on the Hume Autopilot came back but lane keeping was not as good as normal and would cut out whenever I went under a bridge and the road was in shade, then it cut out completely in the M5 tunnel.
Just my luck I thought for my camera to go bad between Christmas and New Year, looked like an early trip to St Leonards was on the cards until I got home and discovered that the problem was.
It seems that some birds have particularly good aim. :cursing:
Dborn
Confirmed
give it a job in the air force!! Actually, I think the wipers do clean that area. Mind you, it is far from the washer fluid jets, and likely the water won't get there in sufficient quantity.
However, a really good post as it provides a data point for others with TACC issues.
I think the autopilot is impressive used in the the right way. I've done over 4,000kms using it, mainly on freeway at 110kms. I also use it occasionally on 80km roads without sharp bends and works well. Since I use it most days (I travel from Entrance on ramp to Syd then around Sydney). It generally drives the whole freeway route for me and I've never had any 'incidents'
I spend most of my 'non steering time' trying to work out how it sees things. There's no doubt it's learning. If I correct it in order to take a corner more smoothly, it takes it better the next time. The major issue I did have was trucks. As we all know they drift and I was very uncomfortable with it keeping the same distance from a truck than a car doing 110kms around a corner. But that has changed - no idea how, but it seems to be moving to the outside of the lane now when approaching trucks.
I also use it a lot in stop/start traffic and find it excellent for that. It's certainly not designed for general city roads (mainly sharp corners / traffic) - I'm assuming software updates to come will help with this.
I also use the auto cruise control a lot while steering myself to keep from going over the speed limit. One major issue I have noticed with this is that if there is a car in front slowing to a stop and it quickly changes lanes, my car will speed up quite quickly and can take a second or more to register that there is actually a car in front of that car - meaning accelerating straight into the back of it if it's stopped or moving slowly. I've lost count of how many times this has happened and I've no doubt if I hadn't braked myself each time, it would have plowed straight into the back of the car. I'm hoping they resolve this as I see it as the biggest issue.
Overall though, used what it's designed for I think it's brilliant!
I spend most of my 'non steering time' trying to work out how it sees things. There's no doubt it's learning. If I correct it in order to take a corner more smoothly, it takes it better the next time. The major issue I did have was trucks. As we all know they drift and I was very uncomfortable with it keeping the same distance from a truck than a car doing 110kms around a corner. But that has changed - no idea how, but it seems to be moving to the outside of the lane now when approaching trucks.
I also use it a lot in stop/start traffic and find it excellent for that. It's certainly not designed for general city roads (mainly sharp corners / traffic) - I'm assuming software updates to come will help with this.
I also use the auto cruise control a lot while steering myself to keep from going over the speed limit. One major issue I have noticed with this is that if there is a car in front slowing to a stop and it quickly changes lanes, my car will speed up quite quickly and can take a second or more to register that there is actually a car in front of that car - meaning accelerating straight into the back of it if it's stopped or moving slowly. I've lost count of how many times this has happened and I've no doubt if I hadn't braked myself each time, it would have plowed straight into the back of the car. I'm hoping they resolve this as I see it as the biggest issue.
Overall though, used what it's designed for I think it's brilliant!
This happened to me too recently as I approached traffic stopped at traffic lights. When it did pick up the car in front it went red and did a rather dramatic brake.
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One thing that bothered me on adaptive cruise control/ autopilot is when a car is slowly changing out of the lane ahead such as into a turn right lane and my Tesla brakes excessively although I can see that there is no need to brake as the lane will clear. I have discovered that by putting my foot on the accelerator I can override the auto braking and maintain my speed. I also noted that at other times if I want I can accelerate above the set speed without cancelling the auto pilot/ adaptive cruise. When I take my foot off the accelerator it returns to the set speed. This is in contrast to the brake pedal which cancels the AP and cruise control immediately.
I believe that if you adjust the setting to allow for a greater time between your car and the one in front (set it to max for example) it will not engage in such harsh braking but on the contrary brake much smoother and gentler. There was an article written about this on Teslarati but I can't find it now. Anyway after reading it, I tried it out and it is much better.
The only issue is that leaving too big a gap invites cars to pull in front of you but two things on this. Firstly it is possible to reach a nice balance between the possibility of cars pulling in front of you and gentle auto braking, and secondly, having tried both, the auto gentle braking is better... So bottom line... Adjust your dial!
Thanks for this however I have tried all dial distance combos and same result. Since it only happens when the car in front is nearly stopped, whether set at 1 or 6, my car is positioned not too far behind it and if it 'disappears' and my car accelerates and doesn't pickup the car that was in front of that car straight away, it's not going to stop in time. And as its accelerating I can see it doesn't show a car in front of me so no collision warning etc. It doesn't happen all of the time, but is consistent with a certain set of circumstances so I do now know when it is going to happen. FYI I usually set my distance control at 3 clicks which also works well on the Freeway...
One other thing I've had very 4 or 5 times while driving usually 50kms or less is a red car pic suddenly jumps up on my dash straight in front of mine with a collision warning. However there have been no cars in front of me at all - clear road. Has anybody else had this happen?
This has happened to me a few times, mainly when there is a curve on the road. My theory is that it is picking up parked cars in the next lane but haven't figured out what causes it to trigger some times and not others.
WhiteStar
Member
It happened to me today going round a bend at 50 km/h with a parked car in a residential street, obviously not on Autopilot. It was what I assume to be the very urgent Collision Alert sound, I looked down & saw the red ghost car on the display which immediately animated into the car avatar. Thankfully no emergency brakes were applied but I can see the possibility of unhappy scenarios in different circumstances. Surely this will be fixed in the update.
Ok, so others have had the same issue as me - I guessed so, but was also wondering if my car had some radar fault.
I'm guessing with the restrictions of the hardware (sensors etc), the best way for them to improve on it will be software based. In previous cars my forward facing radar also occasionally picked up cars parked on the street so I'm guessing these can only be so accurate.
However with the presence of the forward facing camera, sensors and rear camera I'm also guessing they can do much more with the information these provide software-wise. I'm thinking the forward facing camera can probably figure out when a car is parked so the combo of this with the radar could help it decide if it's a false detection or not. I really believe it's exciting times and reckon it must be fascinating being a Tesla programmer / engineer in figuring out what they can do with the available hardware!
I'm guessing with the restrictions of the hardware (sensors etc), the best way for them to improve on it will be software based. In previous cars my forward facing radar also occasionally picked up cars parked on the street so I'm guessing these can only be so accurate.
However with the presence of the forward facing camera, sensors and rear camera I'm also guessing they can do much more with the information these provide software-wise. I'm thinking the forward facing camera can probably figure out when a car is parked so the combo of this with the radar could help it decide if it's a false detection or not. I really believe it's exciting times and reckon it must be fascinating being a Tesla programmer / engineer in figuring out what they can do with the available hardware!
