Any details on headline - Arizona pedestrian is killed by Uber self-driving car

[Az_Rael]

From that SF Chronicle article:
"Traveling at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone on Sunday night, the Uber self-driving car made no attempt to brake.."

Why in the heck was the self driving car speeding? Especially one doing testing on what appeared to be a not busy road. I would expect that computer to be driving 35mph.

Sure, humans speed all the time, but that is one of the many reasons why we get into accidents a lot.

 

[Olds442]

i don't take uber because the drivers mostly don't have proper insurance.

i'd trust a machine over most of the ones I did ride with.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

i don't take uber because the drivers mostly don't have proper insurance.

Uber covers the driver and passenger whenever the driver is online in the app. Also, the driver is required to maintain their own insurance coverage or they are not allowed to drive for Uber: Car Insurance For Uber Drivers | How to be an Uber Driver | Uber

 

[SMAlset]

....What about the person in the car? Shouldn't he have done something? I feel awful for him too.

I don't think this was true at all in this case. I don't think you could be pushing a bike with a bunch of stuff on it and looking at your cell phone. Sounds like the person killed may have been without a home, and likely without a cell phone.

When I posted my first comments it was early on and not much had come out in the news I heard on TV, just that a pedestrian had been killed by a Uber self-driving car overnight.

As for homeless not having a cellphone, that's not an automatic assumption although you might think so. There are programs out there to give cellphones to homeless.

From what has come out since then, the "driver" was at first identified as a male but in fact was a female. It will be interesting to see if they are held accountable to any degree in this death. I can't think of anything more terrible than running over another person.

 

[Olds442]

the driver is required to maintain their own insurance coverage or they are not allowed to drive for Uber: Car Insurance For Uber Drivers | How to be an Uber Driver | Uber

i'm cautious. as much as possible anyway.

 

[SMAlset]

This article in from azcentral (part of USA Today) gives some more info on the two people involved. It does state again that the lady who died was crossing from west to east (from Center Median toward park area). Still would assume a person walking a bike loaded down with stuff and passing from left to right of you across several lanes of traffic should have been detected by some form of the equipment on the Uber, and still hard to understand a driver who was paying attention to the road in front not seeing that person either given the car had headlights and there were two street lights on each side of the NB traffic lane there as well.

 

[Tam]

...Why in the heck was the self driving car speeding?...

Very good point!

May be coding engineers also transmit its culture of competitiveness and speeding to test cars too!

 

[MP3Mike]

Still would assume a person walking a bike loaded down with stuff and passing from left to right of you across several lanes of traffic should have been detected by some form of the equipment on the Uber,

Isn't that the point of Lidar? That even in dark, or shadows, or whatever that the car could see them and the path they are travelling...

 

[McRat]

The main factors in whether or not it was Uber tech that failed, would be the data recorder. Did it 'see' the bicycle as a threat? Did it predict the direction/velocity of the bicycle (did it record the bike was not moving into lanes)? If so, did it take defensive action?

You can't blame darkness. Many streets are dark. You can't blame crosswalks. Many intersections do not have them.

 

[SMAlset]

From that SF Chronicle article:
"Traveling at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone on Sunday night, the Uber self-driving car made no attempt to brake.."

Why in the heck was the self driving car speeding? Especially one doing testing on what appeared to be a not busy road. I would expect that computer to be driving 35mph.

Sure, humans speed all the time, but that is one of the many reasons why we get into accidents a lot.

I also read this from an article from The Verge regarding the speed on that section of road:

"The vehicle was traveling 38 mph, though it is unclear whether that was above or below the speed limit. (Police said the speed limit was 35 mph, but a Google Street View shot of the roadway taken last July shows a speed limit of 45 mph along that stretch of road.)"

This kind of comment also goes to the point that speed signs can change on roads and it raises the question how rapidly car mapping systems can be updated to reflect them in reality and sent to all cars. I know when we were driving in Santa Ynez last summer near the Chumash Casino our Tesla's system thought the speed along that part of road was higher than the posted sign. We sent a report in, a month later we were back in that area and the car still thought the speed was at the higher mph so we sent in another report. So if an accident occurs while you are on an auto pilot type system, and you are found to be speeding, who assumes the blame here? I can see where this could be a gray area once full-self driving level is pushed out.

 

[Cheburashka]

Was the person supervising autopilot an Uber driver?

There was a Uber Safety Engineer/Officer at the wheel at the time of the fatal accident.

What? No. Come on, this is Uber we're talking about. The only people driving Ubers these days are either molesters or felons. In this case, I believe it was a felon at the wheel: Operator of self-driving Uber vehicle that killed pedestrian was felon

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I just noticed in the median that there's a spot that looks like a large/wide sidewalk/path but there are signs indicating "no pedestrians" and "Use crosswalk". Seems like really poor design to have an area that appears to be a sidewalk going down the center of a large median. Isn't this just across the street from where the pedestrian was hit?

 

[Az_Rael]

This kind of comment also goes to the point that speed signs can change on roads and it raises the question how rapidly car mapping systems can be updated to reflect them in reality and sent to all cars.

Well, considering that AP1 can read speed limit signs, it seems like something the car could adjust for on the fly. Otherwise it would always be putting construction workers in danger when they put up temporary lower speed limit signs. No mapping solution will ever be able to keep up with that.

 

[Electroman]

They likely tried to get away with testing on the cheap

.

You are confusing Uber to another company that lets its customers test their system. Already clocked several million miles of testing and data collected.

 

[SMAlset]

Well, considering that AP1 can read speed limit signs, it seems like something the car could adjust for on the fly. Otherwise it would always be putting construction workers in danger when they put up temporary lower speed limit signs. No mapping solution will ever be able to keep up with that.

In the case of our trips down to Santa Ynez, the car was on auto pilot and we had to step in and alter the speed both times. First trip in July was in our MS 75D, AP 2.0 (we were on 2017.28 c528869 on the first trip down). Second trip down we were in a loaner P100D and not sure what version that was on but as mentioned it was necessary to adjust speed that time as well.

I guess the bigger question is will all cars have equipment and software that can read signs.

 

[SMAlset]

I just noticed in the median that there's a spot that looks like a large/wide sidewalk/path but there are signs indicating "no pedestrians" and "Use crosswalk". Seems like really poor design to have an area that appears to be a sidewalk going down the center of a large median. Isn't this just across the street from where the pedestrian was hit?
View attachment 287892

That looks to be slightly further south from where the Uber car and pedestian's belonging were from the photos but yes very close by. For anyone curious here's the navigable Street view map: Google Maps The paver path is on the left and opens up here and empties out a bit further ahead where your photo shows and if you advance forward and to the right side of the lanes you'll see the Blue directional sign, that's where the Uber and bicycle are shown with the police cars forward and behind them.

 

[Az_Rael]

I guess the bigger question is will all cars have equipment and software that can read signs.

I don't think self driving is achievable without that capability.

I do pay very close attention to when they will add sign reading to AP2. Our AP1 car can read the signs on the 20 miles of 65mph private highway I commute on daily. Occasionally it's view gets blocked and it misses a sign kicking me from 65 to the 45mph default max AP speed, but most days it is fine.

With my AP2 car, I can't use AP on that road at all. It won't ever be in the database as the road in question is on military base property. So I wait (im)patiently for sign reading to be added to AP2.

 

[Cheburashka]

I don't think self driving is achievable without that capability.

I do pay very close attention to when they will add sign reading to AP2. Our AP1 car can read the signs on the 20 miles of 65mph private highway I commute on daily. Occasionally it's view gets blocked and it misses a sign kicking me from 65 to the 45mph default max AP speed, but most days it is fine.

With my AP2 car, I can't use AP on that road at all. It won't ever be in the database as the road in question is on military base property. So I wait (im)patiently for sign reading to be added to AP2.

No need to worry. You'll have full self-driving in 3-6 months tops!

 

[scottm]

Maybe everything worked exactly as intended (as programmed with weighted factors). Which is codified morals, really.

This MIT Game Lets You Choose Who Lives and Dies in a Self-Driving Car Wreck

Maybe the car didn't throw itself into oncoming traffic knowing there were 2 humans on-board and at least 1 on-board in the oncoming vehicle, so it didn't swerve and stayed on its course which took out 1 cyclist. Even "knowing" it should share the road and give right-of-way to pedestrians and cyclists.

 

[d21mike]

Maybe everything worked exactly as intended (as programmed with weighted factors). Which is codified morals, really.

This MIT Game Lets You Choose Who Lives and Dies in a Self-Driving Car Wreck

Maybe the car didn't throw itself into oncoming traffic knowing there were 2 humans on-board and at least 1 on-board in the oncoming vehicle, so it didn't swerve and stayed on its course which took out 1 cyclist. Even "knowing" it should share the road and give right-of-way to pedestrians and cyclists.

I would think at a minimum you should apply the breaks. It was reported the car did not apply the breaks "to any degree". That leads me to think the car and the driver did not see the biker before the collision.