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An Update to our Supercharging Program

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I wouldn't go that far, you can still charge at local L2 chargers.

That being said, I 100% disagree with that idea in the first place.

All of us here are enthusiastic early adopters. I don't think many EVs will be sold to the MUD masses if you tell them they have to use L2 chargers; will take hours; possibly cost more than gas; and may not be available when you want it.

Eventually, the MUDs will put it in when the market demands it. I don't think the market will go through the hassle for a long time when an easy ICE alternative is readily available. Chicken and the egg . . .
 
just wait until Mercedes comes out with their cars (10 by 2025), Porsche with theirs, Audi with theirs, BMW with theirs
You wait. Enjoy your wait. I'll be out driving. I will have driven quite a few miles in the nine years between now and 2025. And then, after I've driven my S into a comfortable middle age, if one of those other brands actually has a compelling offering, I'll be glad to consider buying it.

In the mean time, let's talk about things that are real.
 
I agree with many of the previous posts that this is a good policy and timely announcement.

Free SC for all cars, especially when the 3's hit the road, would never be a sustainable business model.

The announcement did not break any promise to anyone. Current owners have the legacy right for SC without limits. Model 3 was never promised to have free SC.

Finally good news for current owners who took delivery before the AP2 announcement. Hopefully people would stop banging their heads against the wall about their "obsolete" 2016 Tesla's. :rolleyes:
 
Also, imagine that you run out of credit and you try to recharge your car but your car is offline for whatever reason(say it's a supercharger that isn't in the AT&T coverage map). They'd probably have to allow you to charge if you're offline even if you're car's charging credit was 0 because they wouldn't have a way of telling your car that you'd paid for more charging credit until you were back online. They'd end up stranding cars if they required online access to confirm or transfer new charging credits.

I've forgotten where I heard it, but there is another EV charging network that works this way. If confirmation/authorisation can't be made due to comms or tech issues, it defaults to allow.
 
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Totally not true. I've done this over a half dozen times and each time they can tell me which stalls are being used and what the charge levels are at, but they can't tell what car is plugged in where. They couldn't even tell me which stall I was plugged into. I asked more than once why and they told me the stalls don't know the identity of the cars plugged into them.
Well, I stand corrected then. I must have misunderstood the tech I spoke with.
(And this certainly contradicts all the rumors from last year about people's charging being "throttled" if they were using a Supercharger near their home. Tesla can't throttle specific cars unless they can identify them.)
And it certainly makes my comments about "EasyPass" type billing more problematic.
I guess we will have to wait and see how they do it.
 
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It's not right to say one thing and then go back on your word.

And as far as a viable competitors to the S/X, just wait until Mercedes comes out with their cars (10 by 2025), Porsche with theirs, Audi with theirs, BMW with theirs. It won't be long until they surpass Tesla in terms of performance/range. Doubt me all you want, but with their resources that what I'm saying is unrealistic? It's all a matter of time...

Nope. Elon is smarter than any of them. The CEO's of major car companies are nothing more than glorified bean counters, some with engineering background, trying to keep the same SUV gravy train running. Thats why Elon built a $28,000,000,000 company in less than a decade. None of the CEO's added anywhere near that value over time. They all lost market value, some went bankrupt.

I'll repeat the relevant part: Elon is smarter than all of them combined, and he is disrupting the industry. And they still don't get it.

RT
 
From an Eco standpoint, maybe this is something that Elon should put some brainpower into. Excessive daily transit by the average CA dweller.
Nah. Why do that? Th rest of us would lose the rich fun of being lectured by a bunch of people who live some of the most resource-intensive lifestyles this side of Dubai about how we're spoiling it for everyone by exercising our contractual rights to use the Superchargers near our homes.
 
It should be far less than the cost of gas--more like the local cost of electricity.

This keeps the one of the primary advantages of owning an electric car and eliminates the advantage of people using it just because it's cheaper than charging at home.

The retail cost of electricity in a multifamily dwelling in New York City is in the neighborhood of $0.21-$0.25 per kWh. Perhaps it's not so surprising our resource usage per capita is a tiny fraction of that in any state West of the Mississippi.

Of course, at the same time, it's immensely complex and often not practical to install EV charging here at all. For example, my building has 200A of service supplying twelve families. Upgrading the service would require trenching about 50 feet of bedrock to lay a new cable, and guess what? The feeder to the nearest transformer vault is only 13.5kV (typical for Manhattan) so if you know anything about utility engineering you can probably see where this is going. These are typical conditions for the 50-odd buildings on both sides of my street stretching from one end to the other about 3/4 of a mile. Oh, I forgot, we're all supposed to live in detached homes on the Peninsula with overhead utility wiring, right?

Sigh. Charge overnight? That must be very nice if you can arrange to do it (you know, like if you live somewhere where everyone else in the country pays to subsidize your resource usage, like by moving billions of gallons of water around against gravity). Me, if I want the car charged up on Monday morning after I drive home Sunday evening, I have one choice, really: hit my "local" Paramus or Greenwich supercharger and get called a jerk on TMC for doing exactly what I'm contractually entitled to do and what my local SvC staff consistently say is perfectly fine to do.

I repeat: the whole world is not California (thank goodness). Other places have other conditions and other needs. Now can we put a cork in the smug talk about how nobody should use their local Superchargers already?
 
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Nah. Why do that? Th rest of us would lose the rich fun of being lectured by a bunch of people who live some of the most resource-intensive lifestyles this side of Dubai about how we're spoiling it for everyone by exercising our contractual rights to use the Superchargers near our homes.

I will do my utmost to not spoil your ongoing fun TLS :)

RT

P.S. I generate 3x as much power as I use, and we drive only EV's. If everyone in California did that, there would be no power plants West of the Mississippi.
 
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At $0.32 / kWh, a 300 wh / mile tesla will get you 28 miles on $2.70. That would make $0.32 really hard to justify compared to gasoline. I pay 1/3rd of that when I charge at home plus the additional savings I get on the rest of my household electricity usage by paying $0.11 / kWh un-tiered.

You have to consider the fact that the majority of the time you are charging at home. Plus Tesla is giving you 400 kWh per year. Even though you will pay near the cost of gasoline for road trips beyond 1,000 miles in a year, your average cost per mile will still be significantly below the cost of gasoline.

If you are keeping an ICE around for road trips because the Supercharging is going to be too expensive, I'm pretty sure the costs of keeping that extra vehicle will also exceed Supercharging costs. The true cost of public charging is always going to be significantly higher than electricity at home because with public charging you have to pay for the electricity, the parking spot, and the DC charging equipment.
 
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The retail cost of electricity in a multifamily dwelling in New York City is in the neighborhood of $0.21-$0.25 per kWh Perhaps it's not so surprising our resource usage per capita is a tiny fraction of that in any state West of the Mississippi.

Of course, at the same time, it's immensely complex andoften not practical to install EV charging here at all. For example, my building has 200A of service supplying twelve families. Upgrading the service would require trenching about 50 feet of bedrock to lay a new cable, and guess what? The feeder to the nearest transformer vault is only 13.5kV (typical for Manhattan) so if you know anything about utility engineering you can probably see where this is going. These are typical conditions for the 50-odd buildings on both sides of my street stretching from one end to the other about 3/4 of a mile. Oh, I forgot, we're all supposed to live in detached homes on the Peninsula with overhead utility wiring, right

Sigh. Charge overnight? That must be very nice if you can arrange to do it (you know, like if you live somewhere where everyone else in the country pays to subsidize your resource usage, like by moving billions of gallons of water around against gravity). Me, if I want the car charged up on Monday morning after I drive home Sunday evening, I have one choice, really: hit my "local" Paramus or Greenwich supercharger and get called a jerk for doing exactly what I'm contractually entitled to do and what my local SvC staff consistently say is perfectly fine to do.

I repeat: the whole world is not California (thank goodness). Other places have other conditions and other needs. Now can we put a cork in the smug talk about how nobody should use their local Superchargers already?

Someone in Manhattan owns a car? I have family and friends in Manhattan and Brooklyn and not a single car is owned in that group. They all find renting easier.

EV isn't going to work for private ownership everywhere.
 
Well, I stand corrected then. I must have misunderstood the tech I spoke with.
(And this certainly contradicts all the rumors from last year about people's charging being "throttled" if they were using a Supercharger near their home. Tesla can't throttle specific cars unless they can identify them.)
And it certainly makes my comments about "EasyPass" type billing more problematic.
I guess we will have to wait and see how they do it.

This very point has been brought up before as a reason against throttling, but if your Tesla is connected to the internet, Tesla certainly knows when you're supercharging and knows which supercharger you're at even if it can't figure out which stall your in so they could in theory throttle you if they did it from the car.

But the throttling conspiracy has been debunked pretty solidly several times now.
 
You have to consider the fact that the majority of the time you are charging at home. Plus Tesla is giving you 400 kWh per year. Even though you will pay near the cost of gasoline for road trips beyond 1,000 miles in a year, your average cost per mile will still be significantly below the cost of gasoline.

If you are keeping an ICE around for road trips because the Supercharging is going to be too expensive, I'm pretty sure the costs of keeping that extra vehicle will also exceed Supercharging costs. The true cost of public charging is always going to be significantly higher than electricity at home because with public charging you have to pay for the electricity, the parking spot, and the DC charging equipment.

A fair number of members on this forum have bought Tesla's primarily for road trips and I've met dozens of retired couples at superchargers who in their retirement are traveling the united states to see everything without cost of gasoline.

I myself have traveled nearly half my 30K miles on long road trips using the SC network(I hate flying). This summer, we're going to to visit relatives in Colorado, New Mexico, and Missouri.

My wife's family is spread all through the central valley from Merced down to Bakersfield, These aren't really long trips but they end up being 500+ mile trips several times a month in addition to my 260 mile round trip commute.

I supercharge a lot. It was a factor in purchasing the MS.