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All key cards lost, adding new key card impossible?

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B

bequa

Member
Sep 9, 2017
11
5
Tbilisi
#1
Hello all,

I have lost all key cards of my M3, fortunately I can drive car via mobile app, thanks to Tesla's genius engineering team,
bought new key card set from Tesla.com but cannot add them, car asks for existing keys approval which I have lost.
Even when I try to add phone as phone key, it asks for existing card approval :(

Contacted Tesla, was told to go to service center, but it's not possible nearest one is 2000 miles away from me with no chargers on the road.

Dear Tesla, this feature can be improved, when I am vehicle owner and have mobile access to vehicle, why cannot I add a new card to it?

Before Tesla does that, let's talk technical:
Since card is NFC, means info is stored somewhere on reader side,
Can the card info be extracted from security controller eeprom and be written to new key card?
 
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#2
What you are describing sounds like a great way for hackers to clone a card to your car and steal it. I feel for you, but you bought a car 2k miles from a service center? What are you going to do when something breaks?

I love my Tesla more than any car I have ever owned, but I would NEVER buy ANY car with the only service 2,000 miles away.
 
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#3
As said you have to have a card to add cards. Or a SC. On purpose for security.

And yeah I wouldn’t purchase the car either with the nearest SC that far away. I’d also be sure I had several spare cards and at least one in a bank. But that doesn’t help normal service needs.
 
#4
Seems you don't love your cars as much as I do mine :)

I respect what Tesla does and how they do it, thats why I bought the car.
But there are obvious things that can be improved, people can take care of their cars,
For example, Apple icloud accounts, you can recover account, lock, erase iPhone, etc, same should be possible with Tesla account and keys.
The car should not be chained to service center, it's an advanced vehicle, advanced people also own them.

Also as long as hackers have physical access to modules, microchips, "security" can be vulnerable.

This is the security controller,
1089774 Security Controller Teardown Internal Photos Tesla Motors,

There is a bluetooth chip, which I think recognizes phone key - via bluetooth mac address.
As well as there is a NFC chip to read/write key cards.
Unfortunately all microchips (eeproms) are not visible here, I might buy one for educational purposes.
 
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#5
Software update required! Manually update - Model 3 [Note car repaired after a crash]


This is still the same car you are working on as the thread above, one in which you repaired a wrecked tesla?

Onto the subject matter, I disagree with your original premise, in that someone should be able to program a new key to the car with just a smartphone. I dont want that, and dont think a person should be able to do that any more than a person who "lost all their keys" to a car should be able to just get a new one at some random locksmith without ordering one from the dealer with a specific keycode.

You can have at physically hacking eprom chips whatever, you own the device so thats all fair game. I dont want adding extra keys without a keycard. The convenience of that is completely overwritten by the obvious security issues.
 
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#6
bequa said:
Seems you don't love your cars as much as I do mine :)

I respect what Tesla does and how they do it, thats why I bought the car.
But there are obvious things that can be improved, people can take care of their cars,
For example, Apple icloud accounts, you can recover account, lock, erase iPhone, etc, same should be possible with Tesla account and keys.
The car should not be chained to service center, it's an advanced vehicle, advanced people also own them.

Also as long as hackers have physical access to modules, microchips, "security" can be vulnerable.

This is the security controller,
1089774 Security Controller Teardown Internal Photos Tesla Motors,

There is a bluetooth chip, which I think recognizes phone key - via bluetooth mac address.
As well as there is a NFC chip to read/write key cards.
Unfortunately all microchips (eeproms) are not visible here, I might buy one for educational purposes.
Click to expand...
Right - but when someone unlocks an iCloud account they aren't gaining access to $50K car.
What you're asking isn't improving the car in any way, its making more vulnerable.
Tesla have a solution, go to the service center.

But most importantly - don't lose your key card.
 
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#7
@jjrandorin
Asking existing key approval is good thing, I did not mean to change that. I was saying, when you have access to your own car via mobile app. why can't you add new key with mobile app approval ?

@Twiglett

I must disagree, twice,
1. It does not matter icloud account is it or other account, there might be more valuable stuff in icloud than a $50k car.
2. You can drive your car via mobile app / username and password, just like log in to your icloud account and check email or other valuable stuff.
There is an extra security "PIN to drive" in case username and pass or key card is compromised .

Since you can drive car via user/pass, why not be able to add new key?
Less you need service center the better for everybody.
 
Last edited:
#9
bequa said:
@jjrandorin
Asking existing key approval is good thing, I did not mean to change that. I was saying, when you have access to your own car via mobile app. why can't you add new key with mobile app approval ?

@Twiglett

I must disagree, twice,
1. It does not matter icloud account is it or other account, there might be more valuable stuff in icloud than a $50k car.
2. You can drive your car via mobile app / username and password, just like log in to your icloud account and check email or other valuable stuff.
There is an extra security "PIN to drive" in case username and pass or key card is compromised .

Since you can drive car via user/pass, why not be able to add new key?
Less you need service center the better for everybody.
Click to expand...
I think they are not trying to rely on phone authentication for adding keys. Also it is less confusing for people that have multiple accounts for 1 vehicle.
 
#10
Is there a way to solve OP's problem besides trying to clone his original card key?

1. Put it on a flatbed tow truck and drive to the service station. But since he lives in TBilisi, Georgia, and the nearest service station is over 2000 mi away, then it sounds like he would need to cross border and go through customs?

2. Use flatbed tow truck to the border then drive across the border and arrange for another flatbed tow truck to drive it the the service station to avoid custom declaration?

3. Ship the Model 3 via a container/transport truck to the service center?

4. Drive all the way to the service center and stop at hotels to charge at night and use a portable gas-powered generator to charge in places without charging to bridge to the next hotel or public charging station:

 
#12
Key replacements for other vehicles with a key fob are always done at a dealership that I've seen. The difference is they give them to you all set up and ready to use with your car based on your VIN (in my experience).

I'm not fully familiar with the technology, but if you buy the key cards from Tesla online when signed in to your account, it would be nice if you could select which car it's going to be used for (like they do with other things, e.g. wall charger) and have Tesla pre-configure your car to accept them on arrival.

On a side note, being 2000 miles away from a service center is going to be tough.
 
#13
bequa said:
Hello all,

I have lost all key cards of my M3, fortunately I can drive car via mobile app, thanks to Tesla's genius engineering team,
bought new key card set from Tesla.com but cannot add them, car asks for existing keys approval which I have lost.
Even when I try to add phone as phone key, it asks for existing card approval :(

Contacted Tesla, was told to go to service center, but it's not possible nearest one is 2000 miles away from me with no chargers on the road.

Dear Tesla, this feature can be improved, when I am vehicle owner and have mobile access to vehicle, why cannot I add a new card to it?

Before Tesla does that, let's talk technical:
Since card is NFC, means info is stored somewhere on reader side,
Can the card info be extracted from security controller eeprom and be written to new key card?
Click to expand...
where do you live?.......BFE
 
#15
This is an interesting dilemma.

I think Tesla needs to overhaul their website security (including the mobile app), to include 2FA at a minimum. Then once you have the phone app registered as a 2FA token/authenticator (authy/Google Auth would be wonderful), which may require the key card btw, :p then the phone/tokenized device should be usable as a keycard in itself.

Also, I wish Model S/X would have the Bluetooth Phone key capability, but that's another discussion.

The other option is, OP if you contact Tesla Support/Service Center, can they ship you the equipment needed to access the vehicle and add a key? It could be coded specifically to VIN and could be more convenient than transporting a big car 2000mi. LOL

Let us know how you go, curious to see how it pans out.
 
#16
I can't offer a technical workaround/hack, since I don't know enough about the security systems involved. My suggestion is therefore to contact Tesla, preferably by telephone, and work up through the customer support layers until you're talking to somebody who can offer a solution (if one exists). Maybe Tesla can do something remotely or ship you a key card that's been pre-programmed for your vehicle, for instance. I fully expect that the first few levels of customer support will be unable to offer any solution better than driving 2,000 miles to the service center, so it's likely to take a while to even talk to somebody who might be able to help. There's also no guarantee that there will be a solution -- at least, not one that Tesla is willing to provide.
 
#19
Kevy Baby said:
The OP lives in Tbilisi, which you can see my looking at "Location" under the user name. If you don't know where that is (it is a former Soviet Republic, not the state in the south eastern US), just click on the location name (Tbilisi) and it pops up in Google Maps.
Click to expand...
thank you....I am from Atlanta so I knew it was not in the state of Georgia...just curious how the hell he got it there if no chargers around there
 
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