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I originally had it that way on the passenger, I may put it back tonight/tomorrow before the alignment is scheduled in the morning. I've got this down so I should be able to knock out the passenger side in 25mins or so. I'm thinking its better to run a little more caster on the passenger side in my configuration since when I commute I'm the only one in the car plus its ballast for just my weight for optimal handling in the way the car is driven most, myself/commuter. I'm also thinking that since positve caster helps influence a negative camber upon compression with our setup, that the passenger side will compress a little less than the driver's side due to the fact I'm on the left/driver's side. So running +4.2º driver / +4.4º passenger might work out well and be more symmetric when pushing the car hard in turns while the suspension compresses. Again, its only 0.2º difference either way I configure it so this configuration may be best and yes that's what I heard as well, max it out since every bit helps.
Done, moved all 3 passenger side shims forward, so passenger should be set to +4.4º. Will see what the Hunter reports for the caster in the morning after the alignment is completed.
Great A+++ experience with the Wheel Works alignment. $200 total and gave them a $5 coupon, so $195 with tax and all. Not bad for a lifetime alignment guarantee. As I had felt, my right rear camber was off. I'll need to pick up some shims to pull it in camber back there. The right rear wheel was where I lightly tagged a curb which shifted the camber in more negative than I want. I told Omar to take an extra look around that area for anything odd. Always shoot for a -1.0 camber for the front and -2.0 for the rear which I really found I like for the Roadster.
Also nailed the caster settings!!! Thanks to MAUTO for pushing me on the passenger side for the last bit of positive caster. I wasn't that far off from my raw calculation, but surprised the driver's side came in more positive with the caster than the passenger side. I had calculated that the passenger was going to have the higher (+0.2º) reading. But unbolting / bolting, moving shims can and will shift things a bit. Stoked it all worked out.
Caster came out to be (alignment machine):
Left (Driver): 4.2º
Right (Passenger): 4.1º
Cross Caster: 0.1º
Front Toe (was shooting for 0)
Left: 0.00º
Right:0.02º
Camber came out to be:
Front
Left: -0.9º
Right: -1.3º <- need to come in +0.3º
Rear
Left: -2.0º
Right: -2.6º <- need to come in +0.6º
Rear Toe
Left: 0.03º
Right:0.08º
Total Toe: 0.42º (was shooting for 0.18º)
Next step is to order up a bunch of camber shims to pull the right front and right rear in. Going to buy the assortment pack so I have a variety of shims on hand in the future. I'll most likely drop them in myself, although Omar said he can do it too. Best thing is that it won't cost me a buck more I need an alignment performed on the Roadster anytime in the future!
Looking to purchase the V2 shim pack from Sector111:
V2shims
I may also go for the V2 arms as well, that way I can play around more with the front and rear camber some and the lifetime alignment gives me some freedom to play around and experiment.
Also here's the tie rod end / track rod end removal tool I used and highly recommend. I "borrowed" it from the Autozone, they lend tools out for free (you buy it, but they refund your money when you return it). I'm either going to purchase a new one or just keep this one. Its only $35. You may risk damaging the dust boot if you use something like a splitter.
http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/tie-rod-end-puller/oem-tie-rod-end-remover-with-3-in-bolt/409628_0_0/
Manufacturer: OEM
Part#: 27276
Also nailed the caster settings!!! Thanks to MAUTO for pushing me on the passenger side for the last bit of positive caster. I wasn't that far off from my raw calculation, but surprised the driver's side came in more positive with the caster than the passenger side. I had calculated that the passenger was going to have the higher (+0.2º) reading. But unbolting / bolting, moving shims can and will shift things a bit. Stoked it all worked out.
Caster came out to be (alignment machine):
Left (Driver): 4.2º
Right (Passenger): 4.1º
Cross Caster: 0.1º
Front Toe (was shooting for 0)
Left: 0.00º
Right:0.02º
Camber came out to be:
Front
Left: -0.9º
Right: -1.3º <- need to come in +0.3º
Rear
Left: -2.0º
Right: -2.6º <- need to come in +0.6º
Rear Toe
Left: 0.03º
Right:0.08º
Total Toe: 0.42º (was shooting for 0.18º)
Next step is to order up a bunch of camber shims to pull the right front and right rear in. Going to buy the assortment pack so I have a variety of shims on hand in the future. I'll most likely drop them in myself, although Omar said he can do it too. Best thing is that it won't cost me a buck more I need an alignment performed on the Roadster anytime in the future!
Looking to purchase the V2 shim pack from Sector111:
V2shims
I may also go for the V2 arms as well, that way I can play around more with the front and rear camber some and the lifetime alignment gives me some freedom to play around and experiment.
Also here's the tie rod end / track rod end removal tool I used and highly recommend. I "borrowed" it from the Autozone, they lend tools out for free (you buy it, but they refund your money when you return it). I'm either going to purchase a new one or just keep this one. Its only $35. You may risk damaging the dust boot if you use something like a splitter.
http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/tie-rod-end-puller/oem-tie-rod-end-remover-with-3-in-bolt/409628_0_0/
Manufacturer: OEM
Part#: 27276
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smorgasbord
Active Member
The V2 arms are great - I have them in my car, which is now running -0.9/-0.8 Camber on the front and -2.4/-2.2 Camber on the rear without doing anything different with mounting plates. Supposed to improve/reduce Bump Steer as well, whatever that is.
BTW, have you greased your control arm bushings yet? If so, how do you go about it?
BTW, have you greased your control arm bushings yet? If so, how do you go about it?
Cool about your great experience with the V2's!
I was able to stick the front end playing around on a right hand fish-hook last night on purpose feeling the break away point going about 35mph in 48F weather (late at night / early morning) with cold tires. Had to do a few good hard turns / digs of the front wheel but on the 3rd/4th hard dig I was able to bring the rear around pretty good and comfortably save it. Was amazed how much the front dug in with the cold AD07's up front, it was a light right-sided camber fish-hook, plus I wanted to see what the camber and bite would be once the front starts to compress more on the corner. Also my rear AD08R's are getting worn down some, so a little slidey. Last night before this test I had TC off and a metering light turned green, I punched it and sure enough the tire started lighting up. So very cold tires.
As for the control arm bushings, didn't touch them. I'll most likely be upgrading those to the lifetime poly's as time passes. Are you getting any squeaks / problems or just thinking along the terms of pro-active maintenance?
I wouldn't lube/spray anything around the bushings unless you start hearing a noise or feel there's a problem. This is what I found about the stock OEM bushings:
"OEM wishbone bushes do not require periodic maintenance."
But the poly's do need periodic lubrication:
"Periodic maintenance is required for polyurethene bushes. If the grease dries out then the sleeves will become scored and the inside of the bushes will start to break up."
Change wishbone bushes - TechWiki
Here's what I found about the stock bushings and resolving squeaks:
Lotus Elise Maintenance, Rattle and Squeak Isolation
"I spray lithium grease, also known as white grease, on the bushing where it contacts the metal of the suspension or shim. I do not use WD40, silicon lube, or anything else that might attack the rubber in the bushing. (I do not know that these will help speed the deterioration of the rubber but know the lithium will not.) The problem with any of the normal greases is that the water will wash them away, requiring an additional application of grease to stop the noise."
Eliseparts has wisharm bushings with grease grooves, I don't think ours do:
Elise Parts - Steering & Suspension - Bushes & Bearings - Ertacetal Wishbone Bushes
PowerFlex poly bushings supply copper grease when installing their product:
Installing Polyurethane Bushings on a Lotus Elise
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I'm not doing a service until I feel they need a service. Until I see a leaky seal or loss of dampening/response I'm not pulling them. I've done enough servicing of my own with motorcycle shocks doing full rebuilds to fully understand when they really need to be serviced. I do ensure to keep the shocks clean as I possibly can and remove any debris that's around that area. I feel Nitron give's the early servicing to ensure their shocks are performing on par with what they spec'd them out to do in terms of performance. I'm not seeing a loss of performance, so I'm good to go. Also I'm not in a grimy / dusty environment, nor an environment that has salt or other harsh elements that can deteriorate seals quicker than usual.
**Note**: Heat / high working temps are a big factor as to the wear the shock oil takes in terms of breaking down. So if you're racing and the suspension is working hard, especially on a hot day then that'll break down the oil faster than on a street car that drives on typically mild days. This is an exception to servicing when you see your seals leak, but on-par with loss of performance which as a regular driver knowing how your car performs one should be able to feel and identify.
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The pothole ridden roads around here are not even close to the smooth surface of a racetrack. The shocks and oil heat up quite a bit on bumpy roads.
The suspension is working plenty hard
Which is why alignment lasts a few months at best.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Hmm. Deitch told me the stock bushings needed periodic greasing. And apparently the poly bushing do, too. I have squeaks.
I have to laugh when people say California roads are pot-hole ridden. Have you ever lived on the east coast in an area where it snows, rains, and the roads are for real pot hole ridden? The pot holes here are just a nuisance and honestly I've gone quite far on my cars without doing an alignment, its no-where close to the east coast. As for the racetracks, there's a fair share of turbulent tracks, they're not all smooth as silk which I get from how you compare them. The action that heats up the shocks on the track are a combination of factors, there's lots of compression happening upon hard braking where the cars are hammering on the brakes from 100+ mph. That's alot of force that's constantly being pushed and pulled. They then accelerate out of the full brake which then adds compression to the rear and starts lifting up on the suspension on the front. Also pushing a race car hard through the turns slams forces very hard on the outside suspension. And coming out unspung quite fast. A true racer who uses his track car regularly and drives it correctly adds quite a bit wear and tear on the entire system, brakes, suspension, engine trans, etc. And I in my personal opinion feel street driven cannot match that intensity nor load, not even close.
65-75k on the shocks is where I'll be targeting a rebuild for my Nitrons, miles after that is where I the seals starting to break down due to wear from regular street use.
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Bummer on the squeaks, that has to be one of the most annoying issues to deal with on a car. I only generously grease bushings that have a grease fitting, if it doesn't I then try to dig up the spec on the oem/aftermarket part to see if it was intended to be re-greased. It can go either way really, if you add a light film of grease to help the bushing out I don't see it causing much harm. But you have to be aware not to add too much which could dry out and bind the bushing or become a dust collector. The optimal amount really is key so it goes on as a light film. I find just sanding down the outside part of the bushing sleeve & the bolt it rides upon being the true key. The bushing can rust and build up dirt that creates high-spots and restricts the free range movement. This typically is the root of the squeaks. I find using a light grease film on the sleeve & bolt (not the threads) works great to protect the metal bushing sleeve from premature corrosion. So I can see where Rob was coming from. There's lots of personal taste when it comes to fixing and maintaining things based upon good results found in the past.
65-75k on the shocks is where I'll be targeting a rebuild for my Nitrons, miles after that is where I the seals starting to break down due to wear from regular street use.
- - - Updated - - -
Bummer on the squeaks, that has to be one of the most annoying issues to deal with on a car. I only generously grease bushings that have a grease fitting, if it doesn't I then try to dig up the spec on the oem/aftermarket part to see if it was intended to be re-greased. It can go either way really, if you add a light film of grease to help the bushing out I don't see it causing much harm. But you have to be aware not to add too much which could dry out and bind the bushing or become a dust collector. The optimal amount really is key so it goes on as a light film. I find just sanding down the outside part of the bushing sleeve & the bolt it rides upon being the true key. The bushing can rust and build up dirt that creates high-spots and restricts the free range movement. This typically is the root of the squeaks. I find using a light grease film on the sleeve & bolt (not the threads) works great to protect the metal bushing sleeve from premature corrosion. So I can see where Rob was coming from. There's lots of personal taste when it comes to fixing and maintaining things based upon good results found in the past.
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FYI: I ended up buying 2 new track rod ends / tie rod ends since I boogered up one of the dust seals, hole in it, and banged the bottom of the other trying to break it loose without being patient to rent/purchase the proper tool. I don't want to stress these types of critical parts. Since failure of a tie rod end can lead to a catastrophic failure and full loss of control of the Roadster, I opted to replace them both. Nice thing is its quite the deal on these, $36 a pop plus $1 for the special threaded M10 nut. I bought 10 nuts for the future, the torque of the track rods are 22 ft lbs, so not much. The nylon lock nut can be used 3 or so times before the nylon won't do its locking job. Its always best to not skimp in the area of safety. By the way, Tesla didn't mark up the price from Lotus, its around the same price so that's pretty cool of them. I had Tesla ship the parts out for only $6-$7, so it beats driving and using your time / battery energy to get there. I'll try to post the part numbers when I get the chance.
Two things you can do next time to separate the tie rods from the spindle:
Hit the end of the tie rod threads directly up with a lead hammer. It won't damage the threads no matter how hard you hit it. Put a large heavy rag over the tie rod as it will fly up when it comes loose.
or
Hit the end of the spindle arm directly next to hole that the tie rod goes into, while gently prying up on the tie rod body (away from the boot). The vibrations will pop it loose. The steel spindle is hard to damage.
Works on ball joints as well (usually you can't use the lead hammer method due to the lack of space).
Or you can use the tool and try not to damage the boots (it just takes a lot longer).
Hit the end of the tie rod threads directly up with a lead hammer. It won't damage the threads no matter how hard you hit it. Put a large heavy rag over the tie rod as it will fly up when it comes loose.
or
Hit the end of the spindle arm directly next to hole that the tie rod goes into, while gently prying up on the tie rod body (away from the boot). The vibrations will pop it loose. The steel spindle is hard to damage.
Works on ball joints as well (usually you can't use the lead hammer method due to the lack of space).
Or you can use the tool and try not to damage the boots (it just takes a lot longer).
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