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8.16 kW DC Solar Panels but never generating more 6.5kW

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Hi,

I had Tesla 8.16 kW DC Solar Panels installed in June 2020 but they never generate more 6.5kW even after cleaning the panels...Across entire year, 6.5kW is the maximum generated power which is typically around noon to 1pm. I'm trying to understand whether getting 8.16 kW is realistic. I have a family member that installed a 4.8 and is getting 4.8.

The inverter installed is a solaredge SE7600H - USOOOBSU4 that maxes out at 7.6kW. Wanted to check here on whether this would be a cause as to why I'm not getting the maximum possible. My panels face south on the roof and has very clear and direct access to the sun across the whole day. Nothing obstructing.

I have a total of 24 Hanwa panels.

Thank you!!!
 
With such a normal-looking production curve, but consistently lower peak and daily/annual production all times of year since the very beginning, I'm just gonna take a wild bet that at the initial installation, they either forgot to or just didn't properly connect a string of 4 panels (4/24 = 16.7%) .....
Then the question is will Tesla come out and respond and correct or can it be checked by the poster?
 
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One more thing:
Beware of situations with serial (string) connected panels and objects casting shadow over one or more panel.
In that case the panel(s) in the shadow bring down the performance of the entire string.
Also good EV companies use software to simulate your setup, angles, local weather, include objects like trees and chimney. Using historical weather data it provides a reasonable forecast of the production you can expect.
Ask for such a calculation, it can avoid unrealistic expectations.

- Bert
understood. I think getting the diagram of how it's been connected along with metrics from each panel/optimizer is key. Thank you.
 
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@fatcatXK just to set your mind at ease a bit, I will give you my recorded production facts for my system installed by me Jan 2012 and online Mar 30, 2012.
It is almost half your size with 17 panels of 235W panels and 17 -215W Enphase inverters. Don't have the initial estimate for yearly production.
Have the same DC/AC ratio as yours.

My best full year production was 2013 with 6.68mWh and worst was 2019 with 6.06mWh. For 2021 it was 6.166mWh. The 2nd best year's production was 2022.
I have 11 May productions under my belt. 2012 May production was 717kWh, the most of any months until last May. Last year, 2022 May production outperformed that with 734kWh. All about the weather on the long run but obviously, inverters and panels also need to be online and producing.
This May have 2 days left and will be lucky to be in 11th place of all Mays.

I also had one peak production day on 14 May 2012 with 3.82kW, all panels produced 226W, and inverter didn't clip. That's 1 in about 4000 days.
May have had one panel going over 215W a couple of days but nothing as that May 14th.
May has been the best production month of a year for 6 years of 11 so far; actually 12 years. August 2015 was that year's best month. July in 2017 and Jun in 2016, 2018, and 2019.

Right now, you are 8.4% of annual estimated production. My variation from best to worst year is 9%.
All about the weather.
 
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With such a normal-looking production curve, but consistently lower peak and daily/annual production all times of year since the very beginning, I'm just gonna take a wild bet that at the initial installation, they either forgot to or just didn't properly connect a string of 4 panels (4/24 = 16.7%) .....

If there's no way to check panel-by-panel output online, and if the OP isn't able to get a technician to inspect the system anytime soon, could the OP maybe look for signs of disconnected panels by using an infrared thermometer (or an IR camera, if one was available) to look for slight differences in temperatures between panels? (With hotter ones being inactive, if my understanding is right??)
 
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If there's no way to check panel-by-panel output online, and if the OP isn't able to get a technician to inspect the system anytime soon, could the OP maybe look for signs of disconnected panels by using an infrared thermometer (or an IR camera, if one was available) to look for slight differences in temperatures between panels? (With hotter ones being inactive, if my understanding is right??)
oh yeah...I have a drone I can fly very close to the panels if that helps. LMK pls. Thx.
 
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I had Tesla 8.16 kW DC Solar Panels installed in June 2020 but they never generate more 6.5kW even after cleaning the panels...
Why have you waited 3 years to get it checked out? Call the installer and ask if they will check the system.

What does the output vs time curve look like on a sunny day? If it is flat (at 6.5 kW) for several hours, the inverter may be the problem. Otherwise, it could be any of several issues...
 
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Speaking with experience. I've got a 2008 solar panel and inverter installation. There are, on the roof, enough panels to, theoretically, generate 9.02 kW of power, assuming a nice clear day, at the right temperature, and with the sun's rays hitting the panels perpendicularly.

Having said all that, I have two inverters in the garage, one capable of 4.8 kW output, the other capable of 3.0 kW of output. That's 7.8 kW. Hey!?! Where did the (9.02-7.8) = 1.22 kW go? That's (1.22/9.02)*100 = 13.5% losses!

I should note that I have nifty plots of the power output of the system, Two, maybe three times a year, the two inverters would peak and slightly flat top at their maximum power. So, most of that 1.22 kW really disappears. This is not a drill. Where does it all go?

Just so we're clear on all this: I really, truly am a EE and was and am not scared of math. I investigated this at the time.
  1. I*I*R losses. One is running significant current through wires and such that total 100 feet or so from the panels to the inverters. Copper has resistance. The power loss in copper goes as current^2 * R.
  2. Panel mismatches. You guys are going to love this one. In my system, the Big Inverter is connected to an array of panels, where there are strings of 9 panels in series; three of these strings are run in parallel, yielding 27 panels panels total. Now, think about manufacturing variations.
    1. First, say that a single string of 9 of these panels in series is exposed to sunlight. Without drawing any current, one would have some voltage across that string of 9 panels. Do the same for the other two strings of 9 panels. Bad news: The three strings will not have the same voltages. What happens if one string has more voltage than another string? Um. Current would try and flow through the other string, that's what. For that reason, there are Diodes (well, solar panels are diodes, but let's not go there) that prevent reverse current - but that means that one string is doing all the work and the other isn't doing anything. OK, that doesn't actually happen, but wait for step two.
    2. Second: Say that the inverter has a single string of 9 panels. Since these panels are in series, the current on all these panels are equal. What does the inverter do? It draws current out of the panels. If it tries to draw some ridiculously maximum current, given the resistance of the panels (under sunlight, natch), the voltage will drop. Power is current x voltage; so if V is minimum, it doesn't matter how much current you have, you get No Power. Likewise, suppose one draws a minimal amount of current. Tiny current x bigger voltage = low power, too. So, what the inverter does, is it steps the load up and down until power is maximized.
    3. Third: Fun, cool: But, MANUFACTURING VARIATIONS!!. There is no guarantee that a bunch of panels, under the same sunlight, will have the same maximum power at the same current. Some will have more; some will have less; and, if one takes them one at a time, the peak (V*I) products will be different for each of the panels. So, just by having them in series, we lose a certain pecentage of the rated power.
    4. Fourth: It's bad enough that I've got 9 panels in a string. But I've got three strings in parallel. Oops. Even more losses from the maximum possible rated.
  3. Inverter losses. Inverters got components. Those components get warm when they're working, be they inductors, capacitors, resistors, or just good old wire. There's 1%-2% losses right there, thank-you-very-much.
  4. Temperatures. I alluded to this earlier. As it happens, silicon solar cells generate an internal voltage when the sun doth shine. The general idea is that current can be tapped out of the anode of the solar panel and returned to the cathode of the solar panel, completing the circuit. However, there Is No Such Thing As A Solar Panel Without Defects. Defects allow ye electrons to go across the barrier backwards. This is very much temperature dependent. The colder the panel is, the less it tends to do this (do my classes in silicon processing appear evident now?), but that's in the winter time, when the sun is down low and not up all that much. When you really want that power is when it's 104F in the shade.. and that's when the panels don't work as good as one would like so much. I happen to have amorphous solar panels; they're much worse at this than all the crystalline ones you guys are running, but both types do this.
So, it's been a number of years since I went through the math, but, in general:
  • Most of the losses are in mismatched panels.
  • About 1/3 of the losses are in I*I*R getting from the roof to the inverters.
  • Rest is in the inverters, a couple more percent.
Where you guys luck out: DC-DC power converters.

Turns out that there's this class of electronic widgetry called a DC-DC converter. It takes in DC voltage and current; then switches this back and forth at $DIETY's own speed through a magnetic, ferritic transformer; on the output side, more transistors and a little filtering convert this to another voltage and current. By fooling around with pulse width modulation, one can go from, say, 20V and 20A (400W) on the input side of such a converter to, say, 10V and 40A on the other. Or by fooling with the PWM in a different direction, for 20V and 20A in, one can get 40V and 10A out. Less about 1%-2% losses in the transistors and ferrites. Main point: this is adjustable under electronic control.

By the way: These are cheap, on the order of $20-$50 a pop in quantity. And very, very reliable.

So, hang onto your hats. Say one has a string of 10 400W panels. Each panel is directly connected to its own DC-DC converters. On the DC-DC converter output sides, the outputs are all connected in series. And, through funky electronic control, we tell the collection of these DC-DC converters that their total voltage shall be 300V. No more, no less. Now, 300V, maximum sunlight or something, so we have 4000W. Nominal current would be 4000W/300V = 13.33A on all the output sides of the power modules. And, at first glance, the voltage per panel would be 400/13.33 = 30V.

Here's where it goes weird. Suppose under that batch of sunlight, one of the ten panels is generating 420W. Another is generating 380W. Another is generating 402W. And so on.

The guy who's generating 420W? Well, the output side still has 13.33A; and we let the output voltage rise to 420/13.33 = 31.5V. The one that's generating 380W? Still got 13.33A, they're all in series, so we get 380/13.33 = 28.5V. The total voltage is 300V, always: But the voltage on each panel is allowed to vary, while the current is adjusted by the Big Inverter to maximize power. Under these conditions, each panel generates the maximum power that it is capable with that sunlight, at that angle, at that temperature. Minus 1% or 2% loss in the DC-DC converter. (Yes, they are that efficient).

So, with you guys and modern solar panels, you lose 1% to 2% in the panels with the DC-DC converters; then another 1% to 2% in the inverter that converts from DC to 240 VAC; and the rest is in I*I*R losses in the wires. That's probably 8% better efficiency, at least, then what I've got on my roof.

Older attempts at this kind of thing was to put DC to 240 VAC inverters on each panel. But that's more expensive. Besides.. Note that I mentioned that my hypothetical string of 10 panels had a total voltage of 300V. There's a reason I mentioned 300V: That's what a lot of battery-back up power walls use for a battery voltage.

If you got more questions, ask 'em. I got answers.
Way to go Fellow Twidget!!! I was an Electronics tech in the US Navy also! I am currently still working in the Electronics Field.
 
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Why have you waited 3 years to get it checked out? Call the installer and ask if they will check the system.

What does the output vs time curve look like on a sunny day? If it is flat (at 6.5 kW) for several hours, the inverter may be the problem. Otherwise, it could be any of several issues...
The screenshot he posted in post 6 looks like a nice bell curve, not clipping.
 
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I have a family member that installed a 4.8 and is getting 4.8.

I have a recently installed 4.8kw Tesla system. My max output thus far is consistently 3.9kw, which is honestly right about what I was expecting.

6.5kw from an 8.16kw system is almost the same ratio and would strike me as 100% perfectly normal.

Your family member claiming 4.8kw peak production from a 4.8kw system is either misinformed or lying to you.
 
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If there's no way to check panel-by-panel output online, and if the OP isn't able to get a technician to inspect the system anytime soon, could the OP maybe look for signs of disconnected panels by using an infrared thermometer (or an IR camera, if one was available) to look for slight differences in temperatures between panels? (With hotter ones being inactive, if my understanding is right??)
I happen to have a (crappy) infrared camera and a rooftop solar array with one panel that’s out due to a dead microinverter, so I went ahead a took some photos.

At midday on a sunny day the “dead” panel was approximately 5C/9F hotter than the adjacent panels.

I imagine a cheap handheld IR thermometer (the kind that looks like a little gun) could also be used to identify similar temperature disparities.

IMG_0583.jpeg
 
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