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2023 M3 air conditioner using 70% of energy
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The AC shuts off unless you set a specific mode to keep it on (Keep Climate On, Dog, or Camp). It's also a huge waste of energy to keep it running when parked, which would only make your complaint worse. I personally shut off the entire climate system as I park the car (with the power icon, not just AC button) so that the fans also don't pull in hot air.
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla
You can always precondition using the app to adjust climate settings before reaching the car.
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla
As for blowing warm air on start, do you have the car set manually to recirculate? If so, I would suggest setting it to Auto to allow the car to smartly pull in outside air as needed. This is because the inside air could easily be 140+ and it will take a while before the AC can cool down the air inside enough for it not to feel warm.
So there have been lots of comments here from the OP that have never been flushed out.
OP said they took the car in and was ignored, found out they didn't check the voltage on the compressor and was going to take it back in. Has that happened? This was 3 and a half weeks ago.
OP said they were going to get a loaner to compare...never reported back about that.
Wife does 100-150 miles per day of driving, is she supercharging throughout the day because you only have 100 miles of range do to your issue?
And then there was talk about hot days and being able to give more data to us but that has never happened.
Looking at the initial post with very rough assumptions I get a 20kW constant load to make a claim of only 100 mile range. Looking at the post about a 9.2 mile trip, again with some assumptions, I get 12kW constant load to match the claim. Both of these I think are excessive.
So anyway, to the OP, you want to provide some more actual testing results for us to look at?
OP said they took the car in and was ignored, found out they didn't check the voltage on the compressor and was going to take it back in. Has that happened? This was 3 and a half weeks ago.
OP said they were going to get a loaner to compare...never reported back about that.
Wife does 100-150 miles per day of driving, is she supercharging throughout the day because you only have 100 miles of range do to your issue?
And then there was talk about hot days and being able to give more data to us but that has never happened.
Looking at the initial post with very rough assumptions I get a 20kW constant load to make a claim of only 100 mile range. Looking at the post about a 9.2 mile trip, again with some assumptions, I get 12kW constant load to match the claim. Both of these I think are excessive.
So anyway, to the OP, you want to provide some more actual testing results for us to look at?
As promised.I will take a snap at next opportunity. Right now the car is in the tint workshop.
Another 320 km / 200 mls trip today. Outside temperatures around 35-40 C / 95-104 F. About 80% highway at 115 kmh / 70 mph, 20% city driving, including a couple of hours parking in the sun.
Glass tinting and sun shields are quite effective. I set the temperature to 24 on Auto. After an hour in the sun the A/C cools down to the set temperature within minutes.
Here is the consumption breakdown:
- average consumption = 129 Wh/km / 207 Wh/mi
- of which 84% for driving, and 10% for the A/C
Overall I am pretty pleased with the figures.
Chipping in with a data point. I've owned my 23 Model Y long range awd for about 4 months now and also live in hot Phoenix where we are now on our 21st day in a row of daily highs above 110 degrees. Initially I was getting pretty good efficiency in the spring in my Y, about 260-300whrs/mi depending on if I'm driving city streets vs highway.
However, this past month since Phx has gotten into the 110+ highs, I've noticed my efficiency plunging on my normal 55mi commute to 390-460whrs/mi. My same 55mi commute that previously used 20-25% battery per day is all of a sudden spiking to using 40-45% battery per day.
I've been tracking my energy usage this past week more carefully using the energy app and I'm surprised to see the car is reporting it's frequently using more of the battery for climate vs driving.
See my 2 photos of two prior trips, one that was a normal commute leaving at 6:45am to work and coming back at 4:30pm so driving half during coolest part of day (morning) and return home 27mi driving at hottest time of day that used 14.3% for driving and 18.3% battery for climate, which is 17.5% higher than rated for climate energy usage.
My 2nd trip was driving in the evening, from 3pm-midnight, about 1/3 mileage during the hot afternoon, and 2/3 mileage late evening after the sun has set and the temps have dropped from 115 to 102-105ish. The energy app still reported my Y consumed 15% for climate vs 13.4% for driving during that 52.9mi I drove that day.
My climate is set to med fan speed, 70 auto. The energy app says setting my climate to 72 would have only saved 0.4% which is a tiny fraction of the total 15-18.3% battery used by climate during the short 53-55mi trips.
My Y is a white color, so one of the cooler colors, and I have ceramic window tint and use a windshield sun blocker while parked and most of the time am early enough to work to snag a covered parking spot for the workday. And the Y is garaged while at my house. So the battery/interior doesn't heat soak as bad as if it was parked directly under the blazing hot phx sun.
I know this is unusually high climate usage because my household also have a 21 Model S Plaid. And the past week, driving the S Plaid around for 50mi in the same hot 105-115 Phx temps, the energy app on the Plaid is reporting the climate is only consuming 3.1% battery vs 15% for driving. And the Plaid is a hotter dark blue color and is usually set to a colder 68-69 interior temp to boot.
I've scheduled an Tesla service appointment for next Friday for them to check out my energy hog climate and to fix a interior mirror rod rattle. I'll report the Tesla findings then.
I suspect I have a defective or missing climate component causing this abnormally high climate energy usage. It didn't help my Y was delivered new with the interior climate sensor board missing, it was just a gaping hole under the main display which resulted in a climate error. That was apparently fixed with a service visit right after my new car deleivery where service put in the missing sensor board that restored climate functionality.
If the factory missed that sensor component, leaving a hole in the interior of my Y, it's very possible they missed something else such as undercharging the refrigerant in the heat pump/ac or missing an ac condenser radiator.
However, this past month since Phx has gotten into the 110+ highs, I've noticed my efficiency plunging on my normal 55mi commute to 390-460whrs/mi. My same 55mi commute that previously used 20-25% battery per day is all of a sudden spiking to using 40-45% battery per day.
I've been tracking my energy usage this past week more carefully using the energy app and I'm surprised to see the car is reporting it's frequently using more of the battery for climate vs driving.
See my 2 photos of two prior trips, one that was a normal commute leaving at 6:45am to work and coming back at 4:30pm so driving half during coolest part of day (morning) and return home 27mi driving at hottest time of day that used 14.3% for driving and 18.3% battery for climate, which is 17.5% higher than rated for climate energy usage.
My 2nd trip was driving in the evening, from 3pm-midnight, about 1/3 mileage during the hot afternoon, and 2/3 mileage late evening after the sun has set and the temps have dropped from 115 to 102-105ish. The energy app still reported my Y consumed 15% for climate vs 13.4% for driving during that 52.9mi I drove that day.
My climate is set to med fan speed, 70 auto. The energy app says setting my climate to 72 would have only saved 0.4% which is a tiny fraction of the total 15-18.3% battery used by climate during the short 53-55mi trips.
My Y is a white color, so one of the cooler colors, and I have ceramic window tint and use a windshield sun blocker while parked and most of the time am early enough to work to snag a covered parking spot for the workday. And the Y is garaged while at my house. So the battery/interior doesn't heat soak as bad as if it was parked directly under the blazing hot phx sun.
I know this is unusually high climate usage because my household also have a 21 Model S Plaid. And the past week, driving the S Plaid around for 50mi in the same hot 105-115 Phx temps, the energy app on the Plaid is reporting the climate is only consuming 3.1% battery vs 15% for driving. And the Plaid is a hotter dark blue color and is usually set to a colder 68-69 interior temp to boot.
I've scheduled an Tesla service appointment for next Friday for them to check out my energy hog climate and to fix a interior mirror rod rattle. I'll report the Tesla findings then.
I suspect I have a defective or missing climate component causing this abnormally high climate energy usage. It didn't help my Y was delivered new with the interior climate sensor board missing, it was just a gaping hole under the main display which resulted in a climate error. That was apparently fixed with a service visit right after my new car deleivery where service put in the missing sensor board that restored climate functionality.
If the factory missed that sensor component, leaving a hole in the interior of my Y, it's very possible they missed something else such as undercharging the refrigerant in the heat pump/ac or missing an ac condenser radiator.
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New to the heat pump Model 3 so things could be different. AFAIK, when the HV traction battery reaches or exceeds 140F, the car could actively cool the battery; however, I don't believe it does if parked and sleeping? Active cooling could just use the front radiator and if necessary use the heat pump (which would use significant power). If the car was parked outside in the sun with ambient temps of 118F+ temps the blacktop could be 160F+, this could raise the battery temp to over 140F. Driving down the road at 35+ mph with ambient temps hovering around 120F I would not think active AC battery cooling would be necessary? slower than that maybe? Given similar conditions to your post, someone with SMT could verify if ACTIVE AC HV battery cooling was sucking up the electrons. or a least I think that could be deduced using SMT? On a positive note, active battery heating before arrival at a Supercharging should not be necessary but active AC cooling might.
From other forum posts, it sounds like the recent Tesla BMS logic is to use fans to cool the battery once it exceeds 45c/113F and gradually use the ac power of the heat pump to actively chill the battery starting around 50-55c/122F-131F to prevent the battery from topping 60c/140F temps.
From other posters who monitor their Tesla cars using 3rd party apps, it sounds like the battery cooling happens primarily or even "only" while the car is on or driving. Though Tesla does warn in the owner's manual to not to let the car be exposed to temps above 140F or below -22F for more than 24 hours at a time.
I'm not sure if that battery cooling (or heating in winter) power usage is reflected in the Tesla in car energy app as "battery conditioning" or included in the "climate" category.
From other posters who monitor their Tesla cars using 3rd party apps, it sounds like the battery cooling happens primarily or even "only" while the car is on or driving. Though Tesla does warn in the owner's manual to not to let the car be exposed to temps above 140F or below -22F for more than 24 hours at a time.
I'm not sure if that battery cooling (or heating in winter) power usage is reflected in the Tesla in car energy app as "battery conditioning" or included in the "climate" category.
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My 2020 M3 started having HVAC issues this summer in Az. When it is 119F it feels like compressor tries to start but than shuts down quickly.
Service center looked at it after 3weeks of waiting appointment and first response was radiator has debris and that is causing it and needs replacement charging about $800 and said it won't be covered in warranty.
After some back and forth i asked for pictures they sent it 4hours later. Dont see any fins damaged or high level of debris so i asked this doesn't sound like radiator issue.
Some time late they called and said thermal test determined compressor issues and they will replace it under warranty. But now on my work order i only see part called cooling fan and shroud been replaced. No compressor.
So at this point i am not sure will my issue be fixed. Attaching a video of noise it was making.
Anyone experienced this issue and can help with some direction on should i accept the repair or ask them to check compressor?
Service center looked at it after 3weeks of waiting appointment and first response was radiator has debris and that is causing it and needs replacement charging about $800 and said it won't be covered in warranty.
After some back and forth i asked for pictures they sent it 4hours later. Dont see any fins damaged or high level of debris so i asked this doesn't sound like radiator issue.
Some time late they called and said thermal test determined compressor issues and they will replace it under warranty. But now on my work order i only see part called cooling fan and shroud been replaced. No compressor.
So at this point i am not sure will my issue be fixed. Attaching a video of noise it was making.
Anyone experienced this issue and can help with some direction on should i accept the repair or ask them to check compressor?
I did exactly that.
Second day of ownership I drove under the beautiful glass roof for a few hours. Too hot to touch, and I ended up with a headache.
Now I have ceramic tint and a screen, and it is ok inside like in any car with a fixed insulated roof. I think it really makes a difference.
Outside temperatures are 35 ~ 45 C / 95 ~ 113 F during 13 hours of cloudless sky per day.
The energy screen informs typically 7 ~ 10% in each trip are used for A/C.
Some updates on this issue, after replacing most of the HVAC parts, the issue still exists and went back to service center, kept again my car for 5 days this week. and finding are cannot reproduce. so not sure if i am going to get the solution, but the video doesn't lie and is not normal. Feels like Service center should put some more efforts rather than plugging toolbox and calling it good. let me know if anyone other here have experienced it and any potential solution.
Is there a fixed sequence for cooling during SuperCharging like first the fan and next the AC? Or does this order sometimes reverse in different Tesla models/options? I've always assumed: Fan then AC, but then I've rarely used AC in my Tesla ever.
Recently I've taken several 1400 mile trips and never once has my Fan turned on at a SCharger while others have the fan blasting away off & on as you would expect in the summer. My kw max is 114 going down to the 40s as the battery fills up - a speed that I can live with. Error msgs on screen do not mention fan/blower at all. This is curious to say the least.
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Recently I've taken several 1400 mile trips and never once has my Fan turned on at a SCharger while others have the fan blasting away off & on as you would expect in the summer. My kw max is 114 going down to the 40s as the battery fills up - a speed that I can live with. Error msgs on screen do not mention fan/blower at all. This is curious to say the least.
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Hey everyone, currently in Las Vegas and havebeen with the model 3 about 500 hundred miles now. The ac seems to be using the same amount of energy as driving is that normal? It seems like a lot and other people I have talk to in Vegas says that is no where near to what they consume.
Temp; 116 degress
Set to 72F and low fan
Temp; 116 degress
Set to 72F and low fan
with 2023 models, the new heat pumps have a significate heat curve in performance cost and lack of cooling. Just got the vehicle back from the service center - they said "nothing is wrong with your vehicle", I asked the service center how many other people (in Phoenix Heat with 2023 models) are bring their vehicles in with this problem ...the answer was a pause a Hmmmm and "We are going to have to refuse to answer that question". It is ridiculous to have the AC not be able to cool the cabin down, and then take a hit on half the range because of this new heat pump product that fails to do the job when the temps to get high. The loaner vehicles we get are older tesla's (2020 - 2021) work just fine. I am now with the news media - it is a real shame Tesla won't own up to this problem. Also logging BBB report. After spending 50 grand, I expect the AC to work and not loose half the range because they put in a new heat pump model that won't work efficiently in high temperatures.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The heat pump was introduced in 2020 with 2021 model year (I have one). It's not a recent 2023 introduction. So I highly doubt it has to do with heat pump specifically.
Are you using a reflective interior roof cover? Are you charging at home and preconditioning the cabin prior to departure?
That's good to know, the person at the service center said they were new or something like that, so I probably should not have assumed the whole heat pump idea was new to the 2023 M3, do you know if they are manufactured all in one locations with all the same specs, or made changes to in 2023 - or does mine just have a problem? What city do you live in? If you are not getting to 110 degrees like we did in phoenix for 10 straight days then you are fortunate not to have to have been soaked in sweat with each drive and loose half your range. Several others have reported similar issues (on this blog) and the service centers deny a problem but when I ask what they did to check they just say there is a general HVAC check they do. My experience is real and I am extremely frustrated, my wife and kids sweat on every drive and we are constantly charging the vehicle. All the ideas presented don't address the underlying problem. The loaner they gave (on all 3 occasion's) did not have this problem. When we go in the loaner vehicle (this time it was a 2020 model 3), the AC came out cool almost immediately just like one would expect. (And of course hot vehicles always take a bit to cool down..etc - this is not about that.) The energy app still was not all that great on the 2020 but was at least reasonable. I can only compare with our Friends Tesla's and every one them tell me we have problem they are not facing - and they all live in phoenix as well. (They have older models). But I will tell you when I asked the service center if others were bringing in their vehicles for the same problem when they replied "We are going to have to refuse to answer that question". - that was frustrating.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm in California in the Bay Area. I don't remember there being 110F temps, but I do drive through areas in the East Bay that reach 105-ish. The AC didn't really have a problem keeping temps at 70-75F (my preferred setting).
If you use auto and allow it to recirculate, it should help it run more efficiently.
I also have roof shades with a reflective layer, as I found a lot heat is generated through the glass roof. When I have the car parked for a while in the sun (cabin temps easily reach 150F), I also put all the windows down to let the heat out. Others run preconditioning, but I generally didn't find a need to do as long as I let out the pent up heat first.
You can perhaps buy an air vent probe thermometer and measure the air vent temperatures of your car and compare to a Model 3 loaner (with heat pump) when the outside temps and other variables (including air vent speeds, car speed, etc) are the same. This would give easily repeatable empirical evidence of a problem.
Note expected vent temperatures can vary depending on outside temperatures and airflow (both internal vent air speed and volume, as well as external air speed and volume which can change depending on how fast you are driving, how fast the external fan is running, how much wind, etc).
https://www.way.com/blog/how-cold-should-car-ac-be-2/
The test they ran is probably this HVAC test, in service mode:
Supposedly the new service mode shows how the various parts of the HVAC is running with a illustration, which may give further insight on what might be the issue. It seems to show coolant loop temps at output, so you can use that as a reference point. It would also show if the system is outputting heat (which if there are faulty temp sensors might be possible). If the coolant loop is able to create cold temps like below and your measured air vent temps are similar, then it's not a problem with your AC. If they vary a lot, there might be a faulty sensor.
2022.44.30.2 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
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