2023 M3 air conditioner using 70% of energy

[bacevedo]

Yes, it was only that hot for the last 20 miles or so of my 170 mile trip. When I started my trip in the mountains, it was in the 90s and my % was dropping like crazy then, before I got anywhere near those temps.

I do expect the higher usage of the HVAC system. But that doesn't explain why my driving category was using more energy when I was closely following the speed limit and accelerating very slowly. It shows yellow almost the entire trip. And some of that was driving 30 - 40 mph on relatively flat roads.

 

[DuncanM]

We drove home today from Pinetop to Chandler via Globe. We left at about 92% charge and the Tesla initially said we should arrive with something around 40% without stopping for charging.

As soon as we started driving, the estimated arrival % started dropping 1% every mile or so. It finally settled around 23% for awhile. We ended up getting home with 17%.

I drove very gingerly once I saw the % dropping, as I was afraid I wouldn't make it home because there aren't any superchargers along my route. I accelerated very slowly, drove the speed limit, and tried to stay under 65 as much as possible. I even turned my AC to 72, low fan, and recirc on. It was over 100 degrees during a large part of the drive.

I've attached the energy graphs to see if anyone sees anything out of the ordinary.

Some notes/questions:

1) Did Tesla change the algorithm for calculating estimated energy usage? It seems like it's calculating estimated energy based on ideal conditions instead of using the actual conditions (which I thought it used previously). It knows the speed limits (knows how fast I'll be driving), knows the elevation changes (so should know usage based on uphill and downhill driving), knows the weather and my current AC setting (so should know climate system usage), and knows my previous driving habits. It displays the wind affecting my range on one of the screens, so why doesn't it calculate that in the beginning instead of showing it as a delta at the end?

2) This can be a dangerous problem if you start out a trip assuming you can make it but get in the middle of nowhere when your range starts dropping rapidly. In the almost 3 years I've owned this Y, I've never had the estimated range be this far off. I'm not a new owner with range anxiety/shock. I'm driving the same vehicle on the same drives and it's suddenly changed. Something's not right. I used to be able to trust what my arrival % would be, now I have no idea.

View attachment 953074View attachment 953075View attachment 953076View attachment 953077

The car should be preconditioned, when it's extremely hot and recirculate should always be be on after the first 5min or so. Even 75F with a med to high fan is still quite comfy when it's over 100F outside.

A sunshade for the glass roof should be considered mandatory for AZ based Teslas, IMHO.

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

We have the same problem in our 2023 M3 standard range, it is only off during the extreme heat and consumption is . Preconditioning does absolutely nothing - unless it is a short trip, then you spend the energy upfront, so not much benefit overall. The problem is the battery and vehicle get super heated from the 160 degree pavement in the direct sun. We notice the direct sun is a problem. If we drive at night in the same temp we dont experience so much. My wife took a long trip to Show Low AZ from phoenix and we had the same problem, we did precondition, but the heat is just too much for the battery. Sorry everyone I have been away for awhile do to job & family, but I have tons of photos, too many to post, so I am putting them in a spreadsheet. For what most of you call summer is not a problem - however, when the extreme desert heat hits (in the direct sun) then the there is an exponential curve on the power consumed by climate (Air Conditioner). For the most part up to about 104 degrees the heat is some what manageable (depending on if it night or mid-day). Above that in the direct sun the drain is substantial no matter what you do, including precondition. If you don't live in the desert ( Phoenix, LasVegas) on hot days then you really have no idea. Our temperatures this week are up to 116 degrees. This problem needs to be logged by keeping track of the trips , temperatures etc. Or you are going to get responses from people that dont live in these conditions that tell you to do this or that - nothing changes the extreme temperatures. However, since everything is a percentage game at this point, every idea to combat this is more than welcome. And Tesla does need to look into this as it does become dangerous when the range drops like you described.

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

Yes, it was only that hot for the last 20 miles or so of my 170 mile trip. When I started my trip in the mountains, it was in the 90s and my % was dropping like crazy then, before I got anywhere near those temps.

I do expect the higher usage of the HVAC system. But that doesn't explain why my driving category was using more energy when I was closely following the speed limit and accelerating very slowly. It shows yellow almost the entire trip. And some of that was driving 30 - 40 mph on relatively flat roads.

Sorry, what is your tesla year and model.

 

[DuncanM]

We have the same problem in our 2023 M3 standard range, it is only off during the extreme heat and consumption is . Preconditioning does absolutely nothing - unless it is a short trip, then you spend the energy upfront, so not much benefit overall. The problem is the battery and vehicle get super heated from the 160 degree pavement in the direct sun. We notice the direct sun is a problem. If we drive at night in the same temp we dont experience so much. My wife took a long trip to Show Low AZ from phoenix and we had the same problem, we did precondition, but the heat is just too much for the battery. Sorry everyone I have been away for awhile do to job & family, but I have tons of photos, too many to post, so I am putting them in a spreadsheet. For what most of you call summer is not a problem - however, when the extreme desert heat hits (in the direct sun) then the there is an exponential curve on the power consumed by climate (Air Conditioner). For the most part up to about 104 degrees the heat is some what manageable (depending on if it night or mid-day). Above that in the direct sun the drain is substantial no matter what you do, including precondition. If you don't live in the desert ( Phoenix, LasVegas) on hot days then you really have no idea. Our temperatures this week are up to 116 degrees. This problem needs to be logged by keeping track of the trips , temperatures etc. Or you are going to get responses from people that dont live in these conditions that tell you to do this or that - nothing changes the extreme temperatures. However, since everything is a percentage game at this point, every idea to combat this is more than welcome. And Tesla does need to look into this as it does become dangerous when the range drops like you described.

Do you have a sunshade for the glass roof? Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Nestour-Sunshade-Foldable-2016-2020-Insulation/dp/B09NBLWVF3/

Do you keep your AC on recirculate and the temp set to ~75F or even higher?

 

[stopcrazypp]

We have the same problem in our 2023 M3 standard range, it is only off during the extreme heat and consumption is . Preconditioning does absolutely nothing - unless it is a short trip, then you spend the energy upfront, so not much benefit overall. The problem is the battery and vehicle get super heated from the 160 degree pavement in the direct sun. We notice the direct sun is a problem. If we drive at night in the same temp we dont experience so much. My wife took a long trip to Show Low AZ from phoenix and we had the same problem, we did precondition, but the heat is just too much for the battery. Sorry everyone I have been away for awhile do to job & family, but I have tons of photos, too many to post, so I am putting them in a spreadsheet. For what most of you call summer is not a problem - however, when the extreme desert heat hits (in the direct sun) then the there is an exponential curve on the power consumed by climate (Air Conditioner). For the most part up to about 104 degrees the heat is some what manageable (depending on if it night or mid-day). Above that in the direct sun the drain is substantial no matter what you do, including precondition. If you don't live in the desert ( Phoenix, LasVegas) on hot days then you really have no idea. Our temperatures this week are up to 116 degrees. This problem needs to be logged by keeping track of the trips , temperatures etc. Or you are going to get responses from people that dont live in these conditions that tell you to do this or that - nothing changes the extreme temperatures. However, since everything is a percentage game at this point, every idea to combat this is more than welcome. And Tesla does need to look into this as it does become dangerous when the range drops like you described.

Do you have it still set to LO and fan speed to max or have you since tried setting it to auto (so that it can recirculate as necessary) and set a temp?

 

[bacevedo]

Sorry, what is your tesla year and model.

It's a 2020 Model Y LR AWD.

Just a note that we got an update to 2023.20.7 and this problem seems to have gone away for us. It's been even hotter this week, and the energy estimates and usage were dead on, like I'm used to. The % wasn't dropping every minute, either, even while I was driving 80+ on the freeway.

The AC system did use more energy, as expected, but the driving category was right in line with the estimates. I'm guessing something in the previous updates was causing some issues.

 

[rrolsbe]

Do you have a sunshade for the glass roof? Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Nestour-Sunshade-Foldable-2016-2020-Insulation/dp/B09NBLWVF3/

Do you keep your AC on recirculate and the temp set to ~75F or even higher?

If the 160F pavement is radiating heat into the battery, the cell temps would eventually reach 140F. It is my understanding active traction battery cooling only happens at cell temps north of 140F? If you are traveling down the road with ambient temps near 120F, I would not think AC cooling of the battery would be necessary (only passive cooling via the front radiator)? If the car is parked, not plugged into shore power, sleeping and the cell temps are over 140F, I am not sure the car will attempt to keep the cell temps below 140F? If it did and active AC cooling was required (there would be airflow through the radiator via the fan but not as much as traveling down the road at 35MPH+), it would not take long to drain the traction battery. What we need is an owner with Scan My Tesla to verify what is actually going on at these extreme temps.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If the 160F pavement is radiating heat into the battery, the cell temps would eventually reach 140F. It is my understanding active traction battery cooling only happens at cell temps north of 140F? If you are traveling down the road with ambient temps near 120F, I would not think AC cooling of the battery would be necessary (only passive cooling via the front radiator)? If the car is parked, not plugged into shore power, sleeping and the cell temps are over 140F, I am not sure the car will attempt to keep the cell temps below 140F? If it did and active AC cooling was required (there would be airflow through the radiator via the fan but not as much as traveling down the road at 35MPH+), it would not take long to drain the traction battery. What we need is an owner with Scan My Tesla to verify what is actually going on at these extreme temps.

My understanding is the BMS only does active temp management when the car is awake, so it'll probably attempt to cool it if it was awake, but if asleep it doesn't do anything.

 

[rrolsbe]

My understanding is the BMS only does active temp management when the car is awake, so it'll probably attempt to cool it if it was awake, but if asleep it doesn't do anything.

Yeah I think that is correct. If I remember correctly for our totaled 2018 Model 3, the Tesla manual indicated to not expose the car/HV battery to ambient temps below -40F or above 140F for more than 48 hours. Our new 2023 Model 3 has not awaken in almost five days to top off the low voltage battery (hopefully is not broken); therefore, if it was parked in an environment with extreme temps, might need to wake the car every two hours and/or keep it plugged into shore power. Our 2018 would wake up at least every 31 hours for 2 to 3 hours to top off the low voltage battery when parked for an extended period of time.

 

[Gasaraki]

I use the fan speed to adjust the temp when set to manual/recur <LO>. I would say the cabin temp is 70 to 72F. The older Model 3 cars with the PTS heaters used power while in AC Auto mode. The heat pump version probably works better, I will report back in a few months after I get my SMT up and running on the new rig. I have NEVER tried to get the cabin temp down to 60F.

Oh, i thought you set your temp to LO... sorry.

 

[MP3Mike]

Interesting test in a Model S Plaid, shows AC on LO with maximum fans used 14-16% more energy than having HVAC off when driving 80 MPH with it 96F outside:

• HVAC off: 50% to 28%; 336 Wh/mile
• HVAC full blast: 50% to 25%; 390 Wh/mile

It would have been nice if he did one more pass with it set to 72F on Auto...

 

[tb.dxb]

I would like to add my experience here today.
Brand new M3LR, picked up 3 days ago.
Today I did a 215 km / 135 mi round trip, mostly highway, moderate traffic. Most of the time I drove at 115 kmh / 72 mph.
Outside temp 41 C / 106 F, sunny. Cabin temp set to 25 C / 77 F (I don't like it too cold!)
I used about 42% battery, calculated to approx. 150 Wh/km / 240 Wh/mi. The energy screen shows a little less, 135 Wh/km.
(I forgot to get the breakdown, though. Will look it up next week, if anyone is interested.)

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

Do you have it still set to LO and fan speed to max or have you since tried setting it to auto (so that it can recirculate as necessary) and set a temp?

We are using various settings now, mostly using 68 degrees, and go as high as 72 where it begins to gets pretty uncomfortable - we are definitely going to get one of those insulated roof covers, (we always recirculate the air-eyes always gravitate to that setting just to be sure, when it is super hot you try not to forget anything). We always select AUTO. One additional frustration we are noticing, is when we stop and leave the AC on, when we get back it is blowing warm, and stays warm until the vehicle is moving again -that is somewhat unsafe if we left a child in the car - does that happen to anyone else? It is going to be 118 degrees tomorrow here, and we are really wishing we had a different vehicle now.

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

I would like to add my experience here today.
Brand new M3LR, picked up 3 days ago.
Today I did a 215 km / 135 mi round trip, mostly highway, moderate traffic. Most of the time I drove at 115 kmh / 72 mph.
Outside temp 41 C / 106 F, sunny. Cabin temp set to 25 C / 77 F (I don't like it too cold!)
I used about 42% battery, calculated to approx. 150 Wh/km / 240 Wh/mi. The energy screen shows a little less, 135 Wh/km.
(I forgot to get the breakdown, though. Will look it up next week, if anyone is interested.)

If possible can you post the energy app screen that shows how much consumption was used by climate? Ours is using more miles than the miles we drive - it does improve slightly on longer trips. Our longest daily round trip is 58 miles. Others are less but the miles add up quickly.

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

Do you have a sunshade for the glass roof? Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Nestour-Sunshade-Foldable-2016-2020-Insulation/dp/B09NBLWVF3/

Do you keep your AC on recirculate and the temp set to ~75F or even higher?

Not yet, but thanks, we are definitly getting one...we recirculate, the highest we go now is 72 degrees, but wether 68 or 72 does not help. The climate consumption is still just way to high - often using as much or near miles as the miles we drive.

 

[jmichaeltracy@]

It's a 2020 Model Y LR AWD.

Just a note that we got an update to 2023.20.7 and this problem seems to have gone away for us. It's been even hotter this week, and the energy estimates and usage were dead on, like I'm used to. The % wasn't dropping every minute, either, even while I was driving 80+ on the freeway.

The AC system did use more energy, as expected, but the driving category was right in line with the estimates. I'm guessing something in the previous updates was causing some issues.

I am beginning to think the issue we are facing may be similar since it seems to have started after a service visit (although, admittedly , that could be anecdotal ). Perhaps the vehicle is set to be to aggressive for cooling the LFP battery and this setting (what ever it could) is the root cause of this. If anyone is familiar with how this is managed by vehicle, please advise.

 

[brkaus]

that is somewhat unsafe if we left a child in the car

There are many reasons leaving a child in the car is unsafe and should not be done.

 

[DuncanM]

We are using various settings now, mostly using 68 degrees, and go as high as 72 where it begins to gets pretty uncomfortable - we are definitely going to get one of those insulated roof covers, (we always recirculate the air-eyes always gravitate to that setting just to be sure, when it is super hot you try not to forget anything). We always select AUTO. One additional frustration we are noticing, is when we stop and leave the AC on, when we get back it is blowing warm, and stays warm until the vehicle is moving again -that is somewhat unsafe if we left a child in the car - does that happen to anyone else? It is going to be 118 degrees tomorrow here, and we are really wishing we had a different vehicle now.

The AC won't stay on, IIRC, unless it's in dog mode.

 

[tb.dxb]

The AC won't stay on, IIRC, unless it's in dog mode.

Is Cabin Overheat Protection not activating AC (unless in "vent only" mode)?
I haven't tried it yet, but that would also drain the battery by a few % per day, yes?