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Nonetheless, $54,000 is not mass market. Moreover, I don't know where you get your $36k or your resale value; but according to Consumer Reports, the Accord is a much better car.

That still doesn't make the M3 a "mass market" car. It costs $54,000 to buy a M3 equipped as well as a $27,000 Accord.

With the huge computer capability of the M3, having it set for the language of your choice should not be a problem.

I don't understand your response. Why would I not be serious? Consumers reports gave the M 3 a road test score (which includes noise) of 75; the Kia Optima received 86. The Kia Optima is also the quietest of the midsize sedans. Although it is conceivable that "modified window glass" is something...

"Sound-Absorbing Front Door Windows: "Noise reducing laminated front door window glass helps create a quiet cabin environment." {{mctrl.meta.metaTitle}} [click on exterior]

fact

A different material. Other manufacturers offer noise reducing windshields and door glass..

The Canadian deliveries cited above are for mid-2018; do you think it is likely that the 200,000th US delivery will be after the third quarter 2018?

I see that Canadian deliveries are now ahead of first day US SR "line waiters"; so much for Elon's "do the right thing."

Why are all these M3s being totaled in head-on crashes in the first place? I thought that automatic emergency braking should prevent this. Does anyone know why they are happening?

My "negativity" started when I discovered that my $35,000 car was going to cost $50,000. I think you can probably trace most of what you see as negativity to the July 28 reveal; which for me showed fewer standard features and much higher prices than I expected.

When I saw the M3 at the first reveal I fell in love with it. What I really fell in love with was the idea that I could have the car of the future today for close to $35,000. Of course, autopilot was what primarily made it the car of the future. But now that I know that a fully capable M3 costs...

While there are some states that require a licensed driver in the car; there are no states that prohibit the sale of a car with full self driving activated.

I Know of no states where FSD is illegal now.

When the 2020 MS2 comes out, it will have 130kWh of 2170s for the same price as todays S100D.

I cited you to economic theory showing that your statement makes no sense. Do you have any economic, or any other verifiable, support for your allegation?

The reason why that is not an apt comparison is because there are significant marginal costs with their adaptive cruise controls. There is no marginal cost with EAP on an M3.

As it does with the M3; so it remains a good comparison.

That would be my hope too. They priced the long-range battery on the M3 at one half of what they priced it on the MS; so hopefully they will reconsider and do the same with EAP.

??

You are correct; I do not have inside information on Tesla's pricing strategy. I presumed that they set the price of EAP on the MS and MX to maximize profits.

Neither Tesla nor software is immune from the laws of economics. Tesla set the price of EAP based on the demand characteristics of the luxury market for the MS and MX. The mass market simply has greater elasticity of demand than the luxury market; that's really not controversial: "Percentage of...

The better analogy is whether you should charge $.50 or a dollar for the ketchup. You might find out that you make less money on the ketchup at a dollar and have a lot of people drop out of the line as well when they hear about the price of the ketchup.

Post # 136: bmzl, Sep 16, 2017 : ↑ *** The primary determinant for most corporate pricing is to maximize profits. However, the price that maximizes profits is a function of demand elasticity. For a luxury...

See post # 136

Very soon Tesla will be reporting their third-quarter results. If there are a lot of M3 cancellations (because of the July 28 pricing reveal), hopefully Tesla will reconsider some of their option pricing. I want EAP too; but the price is just too high.

Siggy: In response to your last attack, I replied: And if I respond to someone else's citation to one of my past threads, then I am the one who brings in those threads. Your reply? Simply a reiteration of your unsupported acusation: "a thread that started about censorship but morphed into...

You are right; I apologize.

Aw, Siggy, you are just trying to disapprove my assertion that there is less ad hominem here than on Tesla.com. Okay, you win, you can engage in ad hominem with the best of them; you can even combine ad hominem with strawman arguments. According to you, everyone you disagree with is whining. And...

I didn't say I "knew" anything; I just cited some sources that supported my position. But while we are on the subject of knowledge, let me add some I do have: The M3's pricing on EAP and FSD are indefensibly excessive (and I doubt were originally intended to be that high). Inasmuch as there is...

This was the thread that I tried to post on: EAP vs Long Range Battery Submitted by rcobbjr on September 20, 2017 It is still current.

Read this article from The Verge; it too discusses that $35,000 was bait and switch: Tesla’s Model 3 isn’t a luxury car, but it’s priced like one @ Model3tracker shows that with the options the majority of people want, the M3 is over $50,000. The Tesla.com M3 forum has a survey of what options...

I'm not going to allow you to get away with cheap ones; go ahead and debunk the fact that the original presentation of the M3 as a $43,000 car on average, could honestly be called a bait and switch. I won't debate your ignorance of the Tesla.com forum; if you don't believe me look directly...

Wow, you guys do get a lot of ad hominem don't you? Or maybe this poster doesn't know what ad hominem means. I can handle any meanies and fanboys. What I object to is Tesla censoring any criticism of their prices. Now, do you have any problems with my post that was censored? While I hate to...

This is not just the innocent operations of a spam filter. I am blocked when ever I challenge Tesla's pricing and profits. Take another look at my statement that was blocked; there is nothing in there that could innocently trigger a spam filter.

Before; the entire post was blocked.

QUOTE="transpondster, post: 2320013, member: 30007"]and rightfully ban for spreading FUD, there is no way that 18650 produced on few years old line could be more expensive than brand new one. Claims of 2170 being cheaper means new 2170 production versus new additional 18650 Are you trying to...

Just for questioning Tesla's options prices?

They have no problem whatsoever with ad hominem attacks; so long as they are pro-Tesla ad hominem attacks. Like many, if not most, of those who post on the M3 forums, I have a deposit on an M3-- so I am generally pro-Tesla. But, they run their forums like the Gestapo--criticize our prices--zap.

I post on both this forum and the Tesla.com M3 forum. The Tesla.com forum is ridiculously censored. Take a look at my latest post that got censored: "The S and X use the older battery; which probably costs more/kwh (also they are "luxury" cars, the M3 is the "affordable" mass-market car). The...

You hit the nail on the head there. But, unfortunately, it means that Tesla has abandoned its mission statement: "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible." Now, it appears that Tesla's mission statement is...

"The higher the percentage of the consumer's income that the product's price represents, the higher the elasticity tends to be, as people will pay more attention when purchasing the good because of its cost;[25][26] The income effect is substantial.[30] When the goods represent only a negligible...

The "marginal cost" of EAP is how much more it will cost Tesla if I buy my M3 with EAP as opposed to without it; alternatively it is how much money will Tesla save if I don't purchase EAP on my M3. In either case the answer is zero. Hence, the marginal cost of EAP is zero. There are primarily...

What economic theory do you rely on for your "distorts the picture" allegation? The primary determinant for most corporate pricing is to maximize profits. However, the price that maximizes profits is a function of demand elasticity. For a luxury car like an MS, demand elasticity is low, e.g. a...

One of the reasons why I fell in love with the M3 was the prospect of autopilot as Elon Musk presented on 3/31/16. I knew that on the "luxury" model S, enhanced autopilot added about 7% to the price of the car. I expected on the "more affordable" M3, enhanced autopilot should add less than 7% to...

That autopilot video looks impressive. However, I am confused; below the video it says that enhanced autopilot can only do very limited things--far less than shown in the video. So what were they showing in the video--FSD?

So you are saying that the totality of autopilot features available on the M3 is for expressway driving and parking; and that cost $5000?

The price of EAP + FSD is really a bridge too far. But, according to Tesla, EAP only works for parking and expressway driving. That leaves most of the autopilot features for FSD only, making EAP a very bad buy. Tesla is being extremely cryptic and somewhat deceptive about all this. If there are...

Maybe not, but like you and your paint, I view the manual seats to be "more of an excuse for Tesla to pull another" $5000 out of us. If Tesla had included power seats in the base car and just added $500 to the price, I could have bought the car I want for $44,500. As it is, if I pay $44,000 I...