P85+ Owners...any comments with regard to ride quality, tires, etc?

So with the expiration of my 2012 Volt's lease, GM's delay of the 2016 Volt introduction (in Texas) and Tesla's introduction of the CPO program I am considering picking up a CPO P85 or P85+ later this year. The primary delta for the P85+ seems to be around the suspension (bushing firmness, different sways and air bladders, etc.) and the staggered wheels. Obviously, I can't just go test drive a new P85+ vs. P85 since they are no longer available so I am looking for real life feedback on the ride quality and any "tire" challenges you have seen. In addition, I find that it is easy to overlook or gloss over something on a test drive which then becomes a pain to deal with every day.

Although I am coming from a Volt, my previous ride was an '02 M5. I became a BMW fan when I realized just how they nailed the BALANCE between handling and ride quality (particularly in the E36 and E39, but I digress). The M5 "only" had 18" rims (staggered) however. I am also keenly aware when manufacturer's miss the mark. We purchased a Volvo XC60 in 2012 with the R-Design package. This included firmer springs/struts/shocks in addition to a host of other items. Unfortunately, I think Volvo simply got the rear shock tuning wrong...just too harsh for only a modest improvement in handling. 90 days post-purchase I crawled underneath and swapped in the base touring suspension rear spring and shocks. On my '05 GTO, the rebound was just way off and gave a bouncy ride...new Konis took care of that (first time I was ever impressed by an aftermarket suspension swap).

The biggest variable of all (beyond your personal tolerance for a given ride) is how rough the roads are where you live and drive every day. I'm in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area as an aside.


Anyway, two items:

1. How would you rate the ride quality in therms of impact harshness (i.e. edge of potholes, expansion cracks, etc.), shudder transmitted through the cabin, and general "getting tossed about" on your daily drives?

2. How is life with the staggered tires? In my own past experience it has been mixed. The M5 wore very evenly, but I've had other cars where they didn't and you just end up hosed w/o the ability to rotate...those cost to replace is, of course, another stinger.

Thanks!

kwhftw said:

my oem tires seem to last 5k miles. great traction but NOISY and dont last at all.

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Is the noise appreciably worse on the "+" or is it really the "21s are noisier than 19s, regardless of model"?

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Hussain said:

cab,

Welcome to the forum. I'm originally from DFW as well so I'm happy to help out a fellow P85+ prospective owner and neighbor. I came from sports cars prior to the Tesla (Porsche's / AMG MB / BMW E39 M5 as well) so my tolerance for rougher ride is likely higher from those experiences. I do not find the ride of the 21" P85+ staggered wheels to be rough at all. I would equate it to an S Class ride actually. It is pretty smooth IMO. That being said, you still want to always avoid those potholes as it can be jarring like any vehicle with low profile tires since there's less meat on the tire to absorb contact. Life with staggered tires is interesting, rears last 15k miles if you're lucky, and I'm still on my original fronts with 30k miles and they'll need to be replaced soon. Naturally with staggered width, you cannot really rotate much, although you can get a little more life out of the tire towards the end by rotating. Rear tires are naturally more expensive than fronts. The usual stuff. Let us know if you have any more questions.

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romp said:

Welcome, Cab!

I'm also coming from BMW M's (but smaller ones than yours: E46 M Coupe and E37 Roadster), and we still own E70 diesel with custom sport suspension (but not the full M). We test-drove P85 and P85+ and settled on the "+", since the difference was substantial. The Plus has noticeably more predictable and neutral handling, especially post-apex. Overall handling is different from the M's, you feel the bigger weight of the car, the road feel is more muted and the traction limits are not as predictable and not as forgiving as the Bavarians make it. The Plus doesn't go into the corners with the same eager, but it comes out of them with more stability and power. Overall, it's a toss-up, really. However, make sure the alignment is done right: I feel it's more critical here than on the BMWs I used to own.

Your questions:

1. expansion cracks do not propagate at all (which is a plus), and you don't really feel them (which is a minus in my book). Potholes -- depends on the size, we don't have many of them here. Going over road construction you clearly get a feel of the roughness. I'd say it's mostly due to significantly increased tire noise than anything else.

2. at ~11Kmi my fronts are about half-way through and my rears were replaced at about 8K with about 30-40% of the thread remaining (blew the sidewall jumping on the curb, had to replace both). I drive pretty much how I used to drive my M's and tire life is very similar to the M's with Bridgestone's S-03's or Michelin's Pilot Sports.

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Great feedback and I totally get what you guys are describing, and I am glad you also brought up the tire noise item (which can be both "impact" noise and "rolling" noise).

Hmmm, well honestly the biggest drawback I am seeing so far appears to be the tire noise (and cost of course). The ride itself seems tolerable, and might, in fact, be somewhat clise to my old 2002 M5 which was fine. Happy to hear more thoughts!!!

More great replies and I appreciate the "equivalent" car perspectives (i.e. previous sports sedans including E39 M5s). I do find I have gotten a bit less tolerant of the sporty ride/noise as I approach my 50s, but still find it comes back to the specific car. In our aforementioned Volvo, the suspension just seemed "low rent" in terms of sophistication and Volvo took the easy "stiff = sporty" path. Honestly, I think even some later BMWs suffered when they introduced run flats - it seemed to take several years before BMW had the increased sidewall stiffness fully (OK, mostly) sorted with regard to the rest of the suspension. BMW's own new i3 (which I had for a 3 day test drive) also misses the mark in my opinion. That car has a really short wheelbase (100" or so), and the general "tossing about" is excessive (again, IMO) and handling is darty on the freeway. It is a blast to drive around town, but there are definite compromises...I strongly believe BMW will alter this in a year or so.

These additional posts continue to reinforce my belief that the "negatives" are really associated more with the 21" low profile tires than they are with anything else. The "worst case" scenario would appear to be that I hate the tire noise and/or ride quality and swap all the way down to the 19s, with the "in-between" option being to do what Hank did and get 2 "front" 21" rims and put them on the rear to allow for rotation (basically, the regular P85 setup).

As most of you know the dang 21" inch rims are ridiculously sweet looking and those alone can draw us to the "dark side"....

Hank, just for you - a couple pics of my previous ride (LMB / Caramel FTW!)....and I discovered your CPO consolidator a few days ago. AWESOME job with it and love v2!

HankLloydRight said:

Very nice! I have the LMB/LMB combo and love it. So much, I was thinking about getting a similar custom color interior for the P85+.

For non M5 folks, this is the LMB (Le Mans Blue) M5 interior (yes, I know -- some people dislike it).

p.s. Also, I may have been a little over-exuberhant last night. Malbec does that sometimes.

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Loved the LMB sport interior as well (and it holds up so much better than the Nappa caramel).

Back on our P85+ topic, what did the two new 21" rims cost you?