Good article in today's fin review:
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/tesla_supercar_to_arrive_in_september_qFzXdtnlXncW3jQhnfBLIN
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/tesla_supercar_to_arrive_in_september_qFzXdtnlXncW3jQhnfBLIN
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Local Tesla press
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Business Insider has published 2 stories recently.
The first one about the Model 3 "Three things Tesla must deliver for the Model 3 to succeed".
The second one a less positive spin on the Edmunds test "Model S brilliant but too many problems".
The first one about the Model 3 "Three things Tesla must deliver for the Model 3 to succeed".
The second one a less positive spin on the Edmunds test "Model S brilliant but too many problems".
If you listen to the investor presentation from last week Elon addresses the Edmonds car - trouble is I cant recall where in the almost 60 mininute session....basically there were two points - minor issues were incorrectly diagnosed (because they had initial trouble diagnosing issues as they gained experience) and were fixed with a total replacement part (very proactive but probably counter productive) and the car was an early example and issues have been resolved with the newer production.
You can listen at http://www.media-server.com/m/p/bbz2caea
Cheers
David
timpoo
Member
Why do they have a photo of a roadster as the headline image -_-'
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Regarding the Business Insider Article on the Model 3 - it highlights some of the issues that Tesla will face when Journalists don't adequately obsess over the brand like us
They point out three problems:
1. Battery Range. They think they need around 290 - 320km range for people to be comfortable. The Model 3 will be about 20% smaller than the Model S, so working off the 60kwh battery, which currently has a range of around 330km (EPA), and doing a straight up conversion, we would likely see around a 260km range. However, with the advances in lithium battery technology, the gigafactory, and the fact that the Model 3 is around 3 years away, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla could easily achieve the 300km range that people would be comfortable with.
2. Charge time. They think that it takes too long to charge at the moment, and people won't tolerate standing around waiting for 30 minutes to charge. They say that a battery swap system is needed, where every swap is $60-$80 USD. This completely ignores how users charge their cars. You no longer have to go to a petrol station to fuel your car, you do it at home, every night if need be. You don't wait around, it's just charging overnight. If you need to take a long road trip, which probably only affects 5% of the user base, then waiting for it to charge over lunch or dinner is really not a big deal.
3. Remain affordable. This is anyone's guess. If the Model 3 comes in at $35k USD, it will cost somewhere around $50,000 in Australia - by no means a true "mass market" car. I can only hope that by that time, we'll have significant incentives for electric vehicles in Australia, and hopefully bring the car price right down.
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Dborn
Confirmed
I agree - if thy have factored in federal incentives to that $35k, depending on prevailing rate of exchange the vehicle will be at least $50k to factor in about $10k for transport / import duty and the rest in GST and stamp duty. At this price bracket LCT fortunately wouldn't apply.
timpoo
Member
Judging by Tesla's previous actions, I imagine the $35k would include government incentives and before "options" like the Tech Package. If that's the case, it could push our price above $50k. I just hope we get our incentives by then...when's the election?
And even if there were one how many would vote green to ensure that happens? I doubt Labour would. I would but very much am in the minority.Judging by Tesla's previous actions, I imagine the $35k would include government incentives and before "options" like the Tech Package. If that's the case, it could push our price above $50k. I just hope we get our incentives by then...when's the election?
doctorwho
Active Member
Ironically we don't even need an election, we just need the coal and power generation inductry to realise that large scale adoption of EVs would help to save their bacon and suddenly the compliant sock puppets in both the ALP and Coalition would be falling over themselves to provide generous subsidies .... until the EV batteries were able to store and supply power to the houses they are plugged into.Judging by Tesla's previous actions, I imagine the $35k would include government incentives and before "options" like the Tech Package. If that's the case, it could push our price above $50k. I just hope we get our incentives by then...when's the election?
Why do they have a photo of a roadster as the headline image -_-'
---
Regarding the Business Insider Article on the Model 3 - it highlights some of the issues that Tesla will face when Journalists don't adequately obsess over the brand like us
They point out three problems:
1. Battery Range. They think they need around 290 - 320km range for people to be comfortable. The Model 3 will be about 20% smaller than the Model S, so working off the 60kwh battery, which currently has a range of around 330km (EPA), and doing a straight up conversion, we would likely see around a 260km range. However, with the advances in lithium battery technology, the gigafactory, and the fact that the Model 3 is around 3 years away, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla could easily achieve the 300km range that people would be comfortable with.
2. Charge time. They think that it takes too long to charge at the moment, and people won't tolerate standing around waiting for 30 minutes to charge. They say that a battery swap system is needed, where every swap is $60-$80 USD. This completely ignores how users charge their cars. You no longer have to go to a petrol station to fuel your car, you do it at home, every night if need be. You don't wait around, it's just charging overnight. If you need to take a long road trip, which probably only affects 5% of the user base, then waiting for it to charge over lunch or dinner is really not a big deal.
3. Remain affordable. This is anyone's guess. If the Model 3 comes in at $35k USD, it will cost somewhere around $50,000 in Australia - by no means a true "mass market" car. I can only hope that by that time, we'll have significant incentives for electric vehicles in Australia, and hopefully bring the car price right down.
Journalists are no different to Joe Public, the first question they ask is "what is the the range" and "how long does it take to charge"?
I am looking forward to the day when I no longer have to go to a service station and pay someone else for my car's energy. It will be free from the sun, charged at home without my attendance and not having to deal with stinking diesel - what a great concept!
Dborn
Confirmed
timpoo
Member
Mark E
Member
Indeed, but for me at least part of the motivation is to stop funding wars. I'm sick of oil money killing millions, and being forced to donate every week. The degradation of the planet is another biggie, even if you don't think that global warming is influenced by CO2 (which I do), the idea of setting fire to millions of barrels of oil and pumping the pollution into the atmosphere doesn't seem very sensible. Add that to the smog that was common over most cities and it's easy to be a convert.
ICE cars are a lot cleaner now than even in relatively recent times, but I still remember being able to smell Sydney from Gosford when driving here from the country, and even today if you drive out towards the west on Lane Cove road you get to see the smog layer above the suburbs on some days as you cross Parramatta Road.
Ultimately I'd like to have 100kWh of stationary batteries and all of my roof area collecting sunlight for power. From the shareholder call Elon is forecasting battery prices at or below $US100 per kWh in 10 years - making that a $10k battery capable of powering the house and car for days - that will spell the end of most fossil fuel power. It'll be resisted tooth and nail, and you can bet both major political parties here will try to stop it to protect the vested interests, but it is inevitable.
A 100kWh battery? Cripes. Don't you think 20-40kWh is a little saner? Even on terrible solar days they still produce some power, and outside your car, you're likely to see ever increasing efficiencies in power consumption inside the home.
I live in Manly and literally every day I can see the smog layer that Sydney produces. It's abhorrent and is a continuous reminder that we have a long way to go. Thankfully that smog layer will likely be gone in 20-30 years, not because of climate change, but simply because of the economics of electric mobility.
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Ironically the Middle East is investing heavily in solar.
Even with 6kW of solar panels our average home use is about 13 kwH per day and that's without charging a Tesla. Granted that's mostly off peak to make use of cheaper off peak rates and to maximize our feed in during the day so that would most likely be different if our power usage was more evenly distributed. We don't have gas to the house so our cooking is induction and in winter the solar gets hot water gets an electric boost. The missus is constantly running the air con when she's home - there's about a one week gap in March and September between switching to reverse cycle and vice-a-versa.
If you want to be off the grid you've also got to allow for a few rainy days. Mind you if you have more efficient panels and inverters that will also go along way.
13? Interesting. What do you think your primary power usage is? Our apartment averages around 5-6 a day, and we haven't even tried to be efficient.
I used to track it really closely for the first year or so to track usage at different times of day and year to make sure I was getting value out of Smartpower etc but three and a half years in I'm a bit over it. I'm guessing it's probably a bit under double that (fridges and freezer running constantly, PCs running constantly but mostly relatively low power) so maybe 20kwH - on summer days when I'm generating over 30kwH I'd use about 10kwH overnight and store another 10kwH and build that up until it maxes out or we have a cloudy day.
All I know for sure is I pretty much break even in winter and get big cheques in summer. Based on my initial calcs I should be on break even within the next year with another six and a half years of feed in tariff from now to go.
I live in a relatively large early 70s 4x1 and in summer run a three-phase bore pump three times a week so that will all contribute too. My wife runs the air con in our room and the kids' room over night and the lounge room the rest of the time she's home.
I'd definitely use a lot more than someone in an apartment especially if they have gas.
All I know for sure is I pretty much break even in winter and get big cheques in summer. Based on my initial calcs I should be on break even within the next year with another six and a half years of feed in tariff from now to go.
I live in a relatively large early 70s 4x1 and in summer run a three-phase bore pump three times a week so that will all contribute too. My wife runs the air con in our room and the kids' room over night and the lounge room the rest of the time she's home.
I'd definitely use a lot more than someone in an apartment especially if they have gas.
doctorwho
Active Member
If the present Coal-ition Government remains in power the smog will be removed from Sydney but remain over the Hunter Vally, or in Victoria over the LaTrobe Valley as most of our power will still be coal generated.
Mark E
Member
Total winter consumption is around 30kWh per day - my wife is home so the heating is always on and is electric. Summer time it's more like 10. If you can get away with 6kWh per day then you are doing well, a fridge uses 1 or more...
The 100kWh figure is to make sure I never need the grid. On a cloudy winters day the solar doesn't generate much - short day and not much sun. My 2 kW system has produced as little as 2kWh on a bad day...
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