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Ohlins R&T landing in the USA as soon as May

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How do you like those Bridgestones?
@Occhis The Potenza Sport are great. I highly recommend them for street use for a performance-minded driver.

Compared to the Tesla-spec Pirelli PZ4 the car came with, which I swapped from at about 1k miles, the Potenza Sport have much more grip dry and wet, and they're much quieter in hard driving where the PZ4 would get pretty squeally for a summer performance tire. No hydroplaning issues with either tire (but I'm not driving hard through standing water). The Potenza Sport are slightly louder than the foamed lined Tesla-spec PZ4 when cruising on the highway, but still not bad for a performance tire, I've had much louder (on other cars).

Compared to their predecessor S-04 Pole Position the new Potenza Sport are clearly way better. I was never that impressed with the S-04, they were passable but not great. I've only used the S-04 on a different car, so this isn't a direct comparison, but it's obvious the newer Bridgestone is much better.

Compared to the good ol' Bridgestone RE-11...okay that's not a fair comparison. ;) RE-11 were an amazing, unique tire and in a different category, and the car I used them on was lighter with a better-sorted suspension. And RE-11 would've been overkill for only street use, even though they were excellent on the street. (That was their magic, unlike most dual use street+track tires.)

Compared to the old Michelin PS2 I think these are better, as they should be for a much newer tire. Not a direct comparison as I've only used the PS2 on our big soft air sprung S P85. PS2 were a good street tire for their day though.

Compared to the Michelin PS4S that are super popular here (and were OE on older M3P!) I can't say, I've yet to use those. I was actually going to try the PS4S first but they were on indefinite backorder in this size. The Potenza Sports are so good I might just get another set when these wear out, but maybe I'll try the PS4S for comparison's sale, if Michelin gets their supply problems under control and I can actually buy them.

More general notes on the Potenza Sport:
  • Steering response is excellent. Despite much taller sidewalls than stock, I couldn't feel any loss of steering response or precision, not in the slightest.
    • Keep in mind I'm still on 100% stock suspension and bushings. The car has the usual M3P softness and turn-in delay, it just didn't get any worse. It's plausible to me that a well-sorted Model 3 with better suspension and stiffer bushings could expose smaller tire response differences that are masked by the stock car's mushiness.
    • For reference, my stock M3P setup was 235/35R20 PZ4 stretched onto 20x9" wheels. The new setup is 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels.
  • These tires grip well when cold before warmed up from driving, as any tire in this category should.
    • "Cold" still means above freezing of course.
  • After 40 miles of tearing up the twisties these tires still feel good, no issues with getting greasy or overheating in that situation. Again, this shouldn't be an issue for any tire in this category.
  • My efficiency went up with this wheel+tire change. I'm chalking that up to the lighter, smaller-diameter wheels / taller sidewalls, not to the specific choice of tire. These Potenza Sport stick for a street-focused tire and I doubt they're any more efficient than the PZ4, but at least they didn't kill my efficiency either.
  • Obviously ride quality is much better thanks to the size change, but that's not a fair comparison either. The sidewalls feel very sturdy, I'm sure you can find smoother riding tires, at the cost of steering response and precision especially during cornering.
Final words: I was never quite happy with the grip of the stock setup, I wanted more. I also didn't like how much the PZ4 squealed even before running out of grip. Now I'm fully satisfied on both accounts. At least while I'm on the crappy stock suspension. I'm installing Redwood Performance Sport Öhlins next week. If they're as good as I hope, it's possible I'll want more grip again... 😈

Final final words: This is based on street driving only, including lots of miles on very twisty, low-to-no traffic rural mountain/hillside/canyon roads, as well as occasionally pushing the car's limits on empty highway ramps in the middle of the night. Track use is much much harder on a tire (and car), I've no idea if these would hold up to any track days, and personally I wouldn't bother with any "max performance" tire (300-ish TW) for track use. In my limited experience nothing with more than 200 TW really holds up on a racetrack, unless it's your first track day and you're just getting your feet wet of course, then run whatever. :)
 
@Occhis The Potenza Sport are great. I highly recommend them for street use for a performance-minded driver.

Compared to the Tesla-spec Pirelli PZ4 the car came with, which I swapped from at about 1k miles, the Potenza Sport have much more grip dry and wet, and they're much quieter in hard driving where the PZ4 would get pretty squeally for a summer performance tire. No hydroplaning issues with either tire (but I'm not driving hard through standing water). The Potenza Sport are slightly louder than the foamed lined Tesla-spec PZ4 when cruising on the highway, but still not bad for a performance tire, I've had much louder (on other cars).

Compared to their predecessor S-04 Pole Position the new Potenza Sport are clearly way better. I was never that impressed with the S-04, they were passable but not great. I've only used the S-04 on a different car, so this isn't a direct comparison, but it's obvious the newer Bridgestone is much better.

Compared to the good ol' Bridgestone RE-11...okay that's not a fair comparison. ;) RE-11 were an amazing, unique tire and in a different category, and the car I used them on was lighter with a better-sorted suspension. And RE-11 would've been overkill for only street use, even though they were excellent on the street. (That was their magic, unlike most dual use street+track tires.)

Compared to the old Michelin PS2 I think these are better, as they should be for a much newer tire. Not a direct comparison as I've only used the PS2 on our big soft air sprung S P85. PS2 were a good street tire for their day though.

Compared to the Michelin PS4S that are super popular here (and were OE on older M3P!) I can't say, I've yet to use those. I was actually going to try the PS4S first but they were on indefinite backorder in this size. The Potenza Sports are so good I might just get another set when these wear out, but maybe I'll try the PS4S for comparison's sale, if Michelin gets their supply problems under control and I can actually buy them.

More general notes on the Potenza Sport:
  • Steering response is excellent. Despite much taller sidewalls than stock, I couldn't feel any loss of steering response or precision, not in the slightest.
    • Keep in mind I'm still on 100% stock suspension and bushings. The car has the usual M3P softness and turn-in delay, it just didn't get any worse. It's plausible to me that a well-sorted Model 3 with better suspension and stiffer bushings could expose smaller tire response differences that are masked by the stock car's mushiness.
    • For reference, my stock M3P setup was 235/35R20 PZ4 stretched onto 20x9" wheels. The new setup is 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels.
  • These tires grip well when cold before warmed up from driving, as any tire in this category should.
    • "Cold" still means above freezing of course.
  • After 40 miles of tearing up the twisties these tires still feel good, no issues with getting greasy or overheating in that situation. Again, this shouldn't be an issue for any tire in this category.
  • My efficiency went up with this wheel+tire change. I'm chalking that up to the lighter, smaller-diameter wheels / taller sidewalls, not to the specific choice of tire. These Potenza Sport stick for a street-focused tire and I doubt they're any more efficient than the PZ4, but at least they didn't kill my efficiency either.
  • Obviously ride quality is much better thanks to the size change, but that's not a fair comparison either. The sidewalls feel very sturdy, I'm sure you can find smoother riding tires, at the cost of steering response and precision especially during cornering.
Final words: I was never quite happy with the grip of the stock setup, I wanted more. I also didn't like how much the PZ4 squealed even before running out of grip. Now I'm fully satisfied on both accounts. At least while I'm on the crappy stock suspension. I'm installing Redwood Performance Sport Öhlins next week. If they're as good as I hope, it's possible I'll want more grip again... 😈

Final final words: This is based on street driving only, including lots of miles on very twisty, low-to-no traffic rural mountain/hillside/canyon roads, as well as occasionally pushing the car's limits on empty highway ramps in the middle of the night. Track use is much much harder on a tire (and car), I've no idea if these would hold up to any track days, and personally I wouldn't bother with any "max performance" tire (300-ish TW) for track use. In my limited experience nothing with more than 200 TW really holds up on a racetrack, unless it's your first track day and you're just getting your feet wet of course, then run whatever. :)
Wow. Didn’t expect such an in-depth write up. Am scouting my next tire replacement, likely by fall/winter, as I now have just over 33k on the original 19 in. Continentals and am at 5/32 all around. Will definitely give these a look. Thanks much.
 
Ohlins USA confirmed arrival delayed until July. Price will be $3190.
 

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This just came across my desk and thought I'd share for you in case people needed more info and to help answer the rear spring question. Not sure on the ID of it though. Spring rates seem really high at 12k Front and rear. Substantially higher than the Redwood Ohlins kit. There's also some other things that Redwood have done that are a step up, above and beyond than this Ohlins OTS kit. Features to note about the Redwood kit would be the billet lower front fork, the gusseted sway bar tab, and the interface for the rear spring. It's interesting that this kit contains design cues from all 3 leading companies for coilovers on the market, UP, MPP/KW, and RW. It's odd to me they are using the same part # for RWD, AWD, and Model Y.

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If you know Ohlns and their products, 65mm ID unless it's a beehive then it's whatever.

12K rear is on the soft side. MCS 2WNR here with 12K rear Swift and it's way more compliant than factory. Definitely could use something higher.

Compression and rebound travel are pretty much the same on any of the 3 product. The only diff is what is below the damper itself to clear the half shaft on the AWD and P. Look at their BMW product line, x-drive or not, the same kit. Why make two when you only need one? Only one way to find out.

KW is always first to market with products for new cars and just look how often they failed on the BMW platform. Ohlins on the other hand spent years in R&D before releasing anything.
 
If you know Ohlns and their products, 65mm ID unless it's a beehive then it's whatever.

12K rear is on the soft side. MCS 2WNR here with 12K rear Swift and it's way more compliant than factory. Definitely could use something higher.

Compression and rebound travel are pretty much the same on any of the 3 product. The only diff is what is below the damper itself to clear the half shaft on the AWD and P. Look at their BMW product line, x-drive or not, the same kit. Why make two when you only need one? Only one way to find out.

KW is always first to market with products for new cars and just look how often they failed on the BMW platform. Ohlins on the other hand spent years in R&D before releasing anything.
I wasn't referring to the physical features that are common between the AWD and RWD. I think using AWD structure on RWD is just smart manufacturing but using the same spring rates on all 3 is what I find confusing. I believe MCS also uses a softer spring up front than in the rear, similar to MPP, and RW. So you're saying because KW "failed" on BMW they must fail on everything else? If so that same argument can be made about Ohlins off the shelf kits. I've heard of Ohlins kits that also need improvement, based on community feedback. It wouldn't be fair to generalize in that case don't you think?
 
I wasn't referring to the physical features that are common between the AWD and RWD. I think using AWD structure on RWD is just smart manufacturing but using the same spring rates on all 3 is what I find confusing. I believe MCS also uses a softer spring up front than in the rear, similar to MPP, and RW. So you're saying because KW "failed" on BMW they must fail on everything else? If so that same argument can be made about Ohlins off the shelf kits. I've heard of Ohlins kits that also need improvement, based on community feedback. It wouldn't be fair to generalize in that case don't you think?
MCS doesn't offer springs I am sure you know that nor do they usually make any spring rate recommendations.

KW have failed on many platforms, not just on BMW. I just see more BMW kits I have to rework to make it right that is all. Ohlins is not perfect but it doesn't have the same number of issues KW has. If you are referring to the spring rates on Ohlins, that is a tough call. Ohlins R&T is a road and track product. Street guys complain about too high of spring rates and track guys complain about too low of spring rates, can't win! :)
 
This just came across my desk and thought I'd share for you in case people needed more info and to help answer the rear spring question. Not sure on the ID of it though. Spring rates seem really high at 12k Front and rear. Substantially higher than the Redwood Ohlins kit. There's also some other things that Redwood have done that are a step up, above and beyond than this Ohlins OTS kit. Features to note about the Redwood kit would be the billet lower front fork, the gusseted sway bar tab, and the interface for the rear spring. It's interesting that this kit contains design cues from all 3 leading companies for coilovers on the market, UP, MPP/KW, and RW. It's odd to me they are using the same part # for RWD, AWD, and Model Y.

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Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.
 
Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.
Perhaps someone else has the answer on the Redwood products. Rates are not published.

F8x kits were 90/230 at the start. Lots of owners didn't like how stiff the rear is. Then options were offered to do 90/190, 80/180. The latest kits end up to be 90/190. 160 was used in the rear for a very street friendly kit. It's hard to win with both of the street and track crowds.
 
Perhaps someone else has the answer on the Redwood products. Rates are not published.

F8x kits were 90/230 at the start. Lots of owners didn't like how stiff the rear is. Then options were offered to do 90/190, 80/180. The latest kits end up to be 90/190. 160 was used in the rear for a very street friendly kit. It's hard to win with both of the street and track crowds.
Yes I believe the earlier M3/4 variant were 90/210 (PN: BMS MP40), after lots of complains they released MP41 and later MR41 that adopted M2C variant springs (90/190, which I'm running right now on my F80). While being too stiff on the street, it doesn't perform that well on track either. IMO what I learned from it is I'd rather have something that works well on street and sacrifice on track or vice versa, than a suspension I complain both on street and track. This is why this time for my M3P I want to do it right.
 
Perhaps someone else has the answer on the Redwood products. Rates are not published.

F8x kits were 90/230 at the start. Lots of owners didn't like how stiff the rear is. Then options were offered to do 90/190, 80/180. The latest kits end up to be 90/190. 160 was used in the rear for a very street friendly kit. It's hard to win with both of the street and track crowds.
My bad a little google search indicates initial variant of 90/230, you were right.
 
Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.
@yjypm If you buy the regular Öhlins R&T kit plus extra Swift springs, you're getting very close to the price of a Redwood Öhlins kit, no? Might as well buy the actual Redwood kit then, I would think, to get valving meant for those spring rates, and the other benefits @P3D-R mentioned. Is there a way to not end up paying for two sets of springs in this scenario? I guess you could try selling the original R&T springs...would there be any market for them?

I'm no expert on this stuff, not in the slightest, it just seems like the main benefit of the off-the-shelf Öhlins kit over a Redwood kit is getting Öhlins DFV at a cheaper price. Which makes the R&T a great option to have on the market. But if you start adding $$$ customizing it specifically to duplicate Redwood's tuning, why not buy a Redwood kit? Would you still save any significant money?


Edit: If you have your own specific spring rates and valving in mind, then ignore this post, I'm not trying to talk anyone away from customizing.
 
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@yjypm If you buy the regular Öhlins R&T kit plus extra Swift springs, you're getting very close to the price of a Redwood Öhlins kit, no? Might as well buy the actual Redwood kit then, I would think, to get valving meant for those spring rates, and the other benefits @P3D-R mentioned. Is there a way to not end up paying for two sets of springs in this scenario? I guess you could try selling the original R&T springs...would there be any market for them?

I'm no expert on this stuff, not in the slightest, it just seems like the main benefit of the off-the-shelf Öhlins kit over a Redwood kit is getting Öhlins DFV at a cheaper price. Which makes the R&T a great option to have on the market. But if you start adding $$$ customizing it specifically to duplicate Redwood's tuning, why not buy a Redwood kit? Would you still save any significant money?


Edit: If you have your own specific spring rates and valving in mind, then ignore this post, I'm not trying to talk anyone away from customizing.
I agree with what you said about the cost, that’s why I ask about for redwood spring rates. Based on my past experiences with ohlins R&T I find the spring rates to be too high. Knowing redwood is very compliant (to most Tesla people, no offense, as an f80 m3 owner I believe I have higher tolerance on stiffer springs for daily driving). I want to find a middle ground between redwood and R&T.

By the way, my BMW is 10% lighter than my m3p, has 25% softer springs up front and ~40% stiffer springs in the rear. Who knows, maybe stock R&T will turn out to be perfect for me on this car.
 
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Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.
Redwood's 'sport' spring setup of Ohlins is 8k/11k, per their install instructions.
Their HPDE spring set is 10k/13k, per e-mail from them.
 
Do you have any info on redwood spring rates? On my BMW (F8x) platform many people replace stock Ohlins R&T springs (90/210k) with swift springs with lower spring-rates (something like 80/160 or so). Having Redwood spring rates for reference really helps set a lower bound for occasional track usage like once or twice per year.
depending which kit you choose it can vary from 5/7, 8/11, 10/13 iirc. Sorry was working on cars yesterday. Sounds like some was answered above already.
 
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