So interestingly the S Plaid has some new sport / bucket seats showing in the service manual. I think that increases the probability that a similar seat can end up in the model 3 performance / plaid / whatever they call it
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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
Those look insane!! I wonder if they will make a sportier version of the seats in the MXP as well.
I'm sure.
There have been rumors that model 3 performance will have different, more aggressive I presume, front and rear bumper covers. I expect that to come to S/X/Y as well. Hopefully we see the M3P unveiling soon - that should give us clues about changes to the entire Performance line up.
In general, Elon is not to be trusted, but supposedly he goal is to get the Cybertruck below 3 seconds 0-60. Seems like that would be good news for the Model 3 getting below 3 seconds as well, as it's clear they aren't gatekeeping those times for S/X.
www.teslarati.com
Tesla aiming to get Cybertruck 0-60 mph under 3 seconds: Elon Musk
Tesla CEO Elon Musk spoke on Joe Rogan's podcast on Tuesday, sharing a hefty acceleration goal for the upcoming Cybertruck.
www.teslarati.com
That time will almost certainly include 1 foot rollout. A sub 3 second 0-60 mph time with rollout subtracted could be as much as 3.22 seconds without rollout subtracted.In general, Elon is not to be trusted, but supposedly he goal is to get the Cybertruck below 3 seconds 0-60. Seems like that would be good news for the Model 3 getting below 3 seconds as well, as it's clear they aren't gatekeeping those times for S/X.
Tesla aiming to get Cybertruck 0-60 mph under 3 seconds: Elon Musk
Tesla CEO Elon Musk spoke on Joe Rogan's podcast on Tuesday, sharing a hefty acceleration goal for the upcoming Cybertruck.
That is still great for a 7,000 lb vehicle but it wouldn’t be good at all for the Model 3.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
In general, Elon is not to be trusted, but supposedly he goal is to get the Cybertruck below 3 seconds 0-60. Seems like that would be good news for the Model 3 getting below 3 seconds as well, as it's clear they aren't gatekeeping those times for S/X.
Tesla aiming to get Cybertruck 0-60 mph under 3 seconds: Elon Musk
Tesla CEO Elon Musk spoke on Joe Rogan's podcast on Tuesday, sharing a hefty acceleration goal for the upcoming Cybertruck.
It could be gatekeeping those times for vehicles costing a lot more than the 3 though- given a lot of folks expect CT pricing to push 6 figures on the higher configs.
I remember when they announced it. Wasn’t it something stupidly low like $60k for a Plaid Cybertruck? It’s clearly going to be way higher, wonder how many people will cancel their orders when they see it.
Of course it will as al Tesla numbers do. My point was just that there has been a question of if they have been only allowing the more expensive S/X to get below "3 seconds". It just feels like good news for a performance sedan if they're trying to get a truck under 3 seconds.
I agree. Maybe they also just make the M3P a much more expensive option and maintain similar profit on the car, but maybe they don't.
The interesting thing about "below 3 seconds" is that a $85K Rivian does 0-60 in 3 seconds, so it's pretty clear they are benchmarking the competition here. That's not great for a M3P, as there isn't anything quicker in an EV 4 door sedan. The other side of that is all the people here saying the M3P competition is $100K ICE BMW's, and if that's true then we have a good chance of seeing 2.5 second M3P's, but at what price?
Yea, it definitely would be good if they let a Model 3 be advertised under 3.0 seconds. However, I don't think 2.5 is realistic even with rollout subtracted. With normal stock weight and the UberHeavy wheels traction isn't an issue. It won't break traction unless it is wet out or the surface is super slick.
However, once you start getting down to the 3.0 range without subtracting rollout or 2.8 with rollout subtracted traction does start to become the limiting factor.
Our track only sprays the prep well for the first few passes of a Test and Tune. All of my first runs are "Hero Passes" and then it falls of after that with the weight reductions. With the car 100% stock it never mattered when I ran. Each pass was basically the same regardless of traction.
Now, it certainly appears that they are going to address the traction issue with wider rear tires(275/30/20) but I am not sure how far down they can go with that increase. The jump from 3.1 to 2.5 is significant and traction would definitely matter there.
It definitely could be done but like you said, at what cost? I think a Ludicrous Model 3 would end up well over $10K above the Highland Model 3 LR. The range hit is going to be significant too. No more 300+ miles of range. The people buying it don't care about that but Tesla does. They don't want people to think of their cars as having poor range.
It won’t go too much below 3 seconds I imagine. They’ll need to change the battery probably otherwise it won’t be able to generate enough power to do it.
Plaid can do "1.99" on all seasons and heavy wheels. Why would it be hard to get a Model 3 to 2.5? That's only like 1.1G which is quite do-able on modern tires on the street.
462kW is 620 HP. The Corvette E-Ray is also almost ~4,000 lbs, has 655 HP and is running 2.5 seconds with no rollout. 2.5 with rollout on 620HP works out mathematically. It's not clear that the battery does need to change if all you care about is 0-60. I do believe it needs to change if you want that power to stay online at higher speeds.
The power required below 40 mph is very low. The battery isn’t producing much power at all until about 30-40 mph.
And to be clear, the low speed curve is basically the same for the Plaid too. That's what flat torque looks like, and you can only put so much torque to the wheels. That's not to say that Tesla isn't limiting torque below the tire capability in the M3P right now, but you can't put down 600HP in a 4K lb car until about 40 MPH on street tires anyway.
In general, Elon is not to be trusted, but supposedly he goal is to get the Cybertruck below 3 seconds 0-60. Seems like that would be good news for the Model 3 getting below 3 seconds as well, as it's clear they aren't gatekeeping those times for S/X.
Tesla aiming to get Cybertruck 0-60 mph under 3 seconds: Elon Musk
Tesla CEO Elon Musk spoke on Joe Rogan's podcast on Tuesday, sharing a hefty acceleration goal for the upcoming Cybertruck.
I don't know if it signals anything. The Cybertruck Plaid or whatever they call it will be $100k most likely. It will be in the premium echelon like the S/X. Also i'm sure with the type of AT tires they put on it, they won't put any effort into top end power. It'll likely be a quick 0-60 followed by fast taper off and a hard limiter at like 110 or 115mph
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Yes. Power = Torque * Speed, so power increases linearly with speed if one wants to keep torque constant. An 18650 pack would be ideal.
Just to speculate in the speculation thread...
MS is $75K @ 3.1 seconds. MS Plaid is $90K at "1.99" seconds.
M3 is $46K for 4.2 seconds and $51K for 3.1.
Why not charge $12K more in a M3P to get from 4.2 seconds to 2.5 and increase that margin from $5K to $12K?
620HP/460kW would be fine if the car stayed at 620HP at higher speeds. The battery can support this. The reason we need a different battery to maintain 620HP is that the motors need more voltage to draw 620HP, not that we need more power output from the battery.
It's not like the plaid power keeps going up above 60 MPH, The "ideal" curve is one that ramps to peak power and then maintains that flat power at all speeds above that, vs what we have now which is that the power actually drops at higher speeds.
Plaid is a totally different animal. It is significantly heavier, has twice the power, and has significantly different sized tires.
The Plaid will struggle with traction too.
I am just giving my experience with running 3.0 second times on 245/40/18 PZ4 tires.
Traction becomes a limiting factor then. There are things you can do to overcome that but they aren’t going to be cheap or practical for a daily driver EV.
The 2.5 second time for the E-Ray is with rollout subtracted. The 462 KW is at the battery for the Model 3. It isn’t putting anything like that to the ground. Remember power at the battery is like power in the gas for an ICE car.
The power from the battery still has to go through the motors, gears, and wheels for the Model 3. Power at the engine in ICE just has to go through the transmission and wheels.
The Corvette puts down SIGNIFICANTLY more power than the Model 3 especially when you include the fact that the Corvette can shift gears. It isn’t comparable.
I am not saying they can’t do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds with rollout subtracted in a Model 3. I am just saying I don’t think they will. I think it will be closer to 2.7-2.8 with rollout subtracted.
You're correct, I read something backwards.
The E-ray is doing 495 HP in the ICE engine at the crank, and a DCT transmission drops a similar amount of power as an inverter and motor.
It's unclear where the E-ray is measuring the "160 HP" front electric motor power.
495 crank HP has to go through a multi-gear transmission, differential, and wheels.
EV power has to go through a single gear transmission (more efficient), differential, and wheels.
They're not really different. Your point that 462kW is at the battery and 495HP is at the crank is valid, but it's not clear how much heat loss the motor and inverter has, and how much of that is made back via the simpler single speed transmission.
Yes, above 60 MPH for sure, but I was just pointing out that in 0-60, 462kW is plenty to get into the 2 second range 0-60. Beyond that of course something like an E-ray will walk on a current M3P. That doesn't have to be true if the new M3P can maintain 462kW from 40 MPH to 100MPH+.
