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SpaceX vs. Everyone - ULA, NG, Boeing, Lockheed, etc.

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I'm sure you'll all be surprised that the California Coastal Commission has issues with SpaceX's proposed increased number of launches from Vandenburg.
I did not realize that the CCC had any authority over what happens on US Air Force property that has been there decades before the commission was established. According to this recent article in the issue, the commission cannot limit the number of launches.
 
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I did not realize that the CCC had any authority over what happens on US Air Force property that has been there decades before the commission was established. According to this recent article in the issue, the commission cannot limit the number of launches.
They will have an arm wrestling contest. Unless the military has gone really soft, I suspect they will win.
 
They will have an arm wrestling contest. Unless the military has gone really soft, I suspect they will win.
CCC may not even have the jurisdiction to do anything. I think it would be more effective to go after SpaceX as a company violating local ordinances. Set up a fine schedule such that either SpaceX stops hitting local communities with overpressure, or they compensate the communities for each launch. Either way, SpaceX should be performing their commercial launches from Canaveral. Surely they can pack more launch sites into the available real estate.

That said, I don't know how sensitive the locals are being about launches. Is there a rumble across the area, or is this the sort of thing that would stress a non-trivial percentage of the population? Did Delicate Dave, who knows the chairman of the CCC, complain about the noise?
 
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That said, I don't know how sensitive the locals are being about launches. Is there a rumble across the area, or is this the sort of thing that would stress a non-trivial percentage of the population?

The locals in the valley are generally not sensitive. They're all generally agricultural and just happy to be employed, or they make their livelihood off of VAFB in some way or another...so...more rockets is more job security. There's really very little publicly accessible land use affected by launches, since most of the area is part of the base anyway. When they're talking about evacs it's really campers down around the corner or limiting how close folks can get to the beach/train station to watch launches--not anyone that's actually a resident (like BC, for instance). I'd buy that a handful of vocal Rich Folk in SB/Ojai are a bit more miffed than they've been in the past, but in more of a "you kids turn down that music" kind of way than anything else...so...not the first voice for which I'd advocate here...

That said, it would be really unfortunate if the CCC gets The Heisman on this simply because "That's not what the rules say." As with every law/rule/mandate/doctrine ever created in the history of everything, contemporary context matters. When the subject plans were drafted for vandy it was unfathomable that there might be more than a few launches a month, let alone anyone contemplating multiple launches per week.

Indeed the concerns raised are quite reasonable, and there's a compromise here for sure. It does make sense for vandy to serve as a US launch site, both from a national security perspective as well as to maintain leadership in the global launch industry. It does make sense that more frequent launch rates are coming (and they should be allowed to come--and not just from SX) and kicking the can on how increased launch cadence impacts everything will just compound the problem. It makes sense that federal use (national security) and participating partners get a bit of a free pass for some things (within reason). It DOESN'T make sense that an entity like SX should benefit in perpetuity and across the board from those free passes if only a very small percentage of their activity is actually for federal use. (As would be the case if SX ramps up to 36 launches/year, let alone more than that). It DOESN'T make sense to simply go head-in-sand on potential environmental impacts of greatly increased launch frequency.
 
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Dream Chaser news: First Dream Chaser spaceplane needs more work when it gets to launch site

I wonder what the impetus to ship this thing to the launch site is given significant things that still need to be completed...

Is this being developed under a typical NASA contract that pays out when milestones are hit? If so, then shipping to to Florida is likely a milestone, and your answer could be "because cash flow" :)

That cynical answer is mostly because I recently read the Eric Berger article that somebody recently shared that is about StarLiner, where he mentioned that Boeing kept doing the least possible work in order to meet milestones and get paid, building up ever increasing amounts of technical debt.

Dream Chaser might have merely made legit engineering choices that some work is best done in Florida for reasons I'm clueless about.
 
Boeing is proposing use of the SLS to launch a huge sample return vehicle to Mars which would use aerobraking followed by a propulsive landing. It would have the ability to collect the samples and then perform a direct return to Earth, eliminating the orbital capture with a separate vehicle that's part of the current $11 billion plan. The article suggests that by the time of the mission (2034), New Glenn and Starship should be flying regularly, and that use of the expensive SLS would seem unwarranted. The comment section is the expected anti-Boeing pig pile.


Boeing says a single launch of the Space Launch System rocket could carry everything needed for a Mars Sample Return mission.


Boeing's proposal involves a massive lander and Mars Ascent Vehicle, seen dwarfing NASA's Perseverance rover in this artist's illustration.
 
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The article suggests that by the time of the mission (2034), New Glenn and Starship should be flying regularly, and that use of the expensive SLS would seem unwarranted.
Thanks, saw that article. I would have phrased this sentence in the article differently:
With lower-cost super heavy-lift rockets on the horizon, it seems like the Space Launch System has a finite shelf life.
Better would be:
With dramatically lower-cost super heavy-lift rockets almost certain to show they can leave LEO within two years, the Space Launch System will be rendered obsolete long before 2030, and planning to use it in 2034 is foolish.
Send a Starship (refueled in LEO) to LMO with the Mars Descent/Landing/Return vehicle as payload. The Starship is expended. The booster is reused.

You’ve just saved at least $1.6 billion. Of course the Mars Descent/Landing/Return vehicle won’t be ready in two years or even four years. But long before it is ready, Starship will be ready.

I expect that by 2034 crewed Starships will have started arriving on Mars every 26 months and there will be an even cheaper way to get those Martian samples back to Earth.
 
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The Starship is expended.
It has the delta-V to do a lot more than drop off the retrieval lander. The lander is only 25 tons. Starship can do that to Mars as a rideshare as part of a 100 ton payload. So Starship could try its first entry, descent and landing. That would require some kind of appropriate landing system, which certainly can't be tail first on a Raptor. The ship could take a prototype methane production plant and any other experiments or supplies appropriate to Mars colony building.

This is with a V1 Starship with 1200 tons of propellant.

Imagine putting a Toyota lunar rover on Mars with some programming for driving itself around. Toyota projects a range of 10,000 km over a six year lifetime. Load it up with supplies that can be delivered to a manned landing site.

A big challenge would be deploying the Boeing lander, then buttoning up again for reentry. Deploying it from an expended Starship would certainly be simpler.

I expect that by 2034 crewed Starships will have started arriving on Mars every 26 months and there will be an even cheaper way to get those Martian samples back to Earth.
I think that's what we're all wondering. "Where will Starship be in 2034?"
 
Eric Berger: Air Force is “growing concerned” about the pace of Vulcan rocket launches

"I am growing concerned with ULA’s ability to scale manufacturing of its Vulcan rocket and scale its launch cadence to meet our needs," [Air Force Assistant Secretary ] Calvelli wrote. "Currently there is military satellite capability sitting on the ground due to Vulcan delays. ULA has a backlog of 25 National Security Space Launch (NSSL) Phase 2 Vulcan launches on contract." These 25 launches, Calvelli notes, are due to be completed by the end of 2027.
That statement is inadvertently hilarious. It is anppears impossible for ULA to launch Vulcan 25 times in the next year and a half, and the next launch is the second certification mission and won’t carry one of the 25 contracted payloads. In fact the next launch is NET September, with Dream Chaser, but it may well launch with a mass simulator just to get the mission completed.

Calvelli also noted that Vulcan has made commitments to launch dozens of satellites for others over that period, a reference to a contract between United Launch Alliance and Amazon for Project Kuiper satellites.
It also seems likely that BO is unable to produce BE-4 engines at anywhere near the pace to make those Vulcan launches even if ULA could somehow build that many vehicles.

What a mess for the Air Force, ULA, and BO.
It has been nearly four years since the US Air Force made its selections for companies to launch military payloads during the mid-2020s. The military chose United Launch Alliance, and its Vulcan rocket, to launch 60 percent of these missions; and it chose SpaceX, with the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy boosters, to launch 40 percent.
That Air Force decision was a disaster. Should have been 80% SpaceX.
 
Apologies for my typo. The goal of once a month still seems impossible.

After certification, United Launch Alliance can begin to fly military missions. However, it is one thing to build one or two rockets, it is quite another to build them at scale. The company's goal is to reach a cadence of two Vulcan launches a month by the end of 2025. In his letter, Calvelli mentioned that United Launch Alliance has averaged fewer than six launches a year during the last five years. This indicates a concern that such a goal may be unreasonable
 
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Should have been 80% SpaceX.
It may yet, but there's no way to know what will happen. ULA and Blue Origin may be completely on top of this and Vulcan may be flying at a reputable rate by the end of 2025. Not Falcon 9 rates, nor with reusable boosters, but at least they'd be on their way to satisfying their contract requirements. They need to walk before they can run.

In fact the next launch is NET September, with Dream Chaser, but it may well launch with a mass simulator just to get the mission completed.
Well, that would be on Sierra Space.

I was trying to understand why the Air Force wouldn't just go with the second flight of Vulcan in "mid-2024", and it turns out that the Department of Defense won't certify Vulcan for their missions until the rocket has successfully completed two flights. ULA isn't showing much drive by waiting for Dream Chaser. I guess they don't have the rockets (engines?) ready to try both a mass simulator launch in "mid-2024" as well as the Dream Chaser one in September/October - assuming Dream Chaser is even ready by then.

Two and a half years from now
Three and a half, right?
 
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It appears impossible for ULA to launch Vulcan 25 times in the next year and a half, and the next launch is the second certification mission and won’t carry one of the 25 contracted payloads. In fact the next launch is NET September, with Dream Chaser, but it may well launch with a mass simulator just to get the mission completed.


It also seems likely that BO is unable to produce BE-4 engines at anywhere near the pace to make those Vulcan launches even if ULA could somehow build that many vehicles.

What a mess for the Air Force, ULA, and BO.

That Air Force decision was a disaster. Should have been 80% SpaceX.
The smart move, if they are ready, is to pull a SpaceX and do a discounted launch for someone. I don't think they can pivot like SpaceX can though.

BO needs to make 50 BE-4s just for those 25 launches. New Glenns need 7 of them for each of their rockets. BO will really need to start manufacturing BE-4 in large numbers if they expect to meet both companies needs. 2 of them a month would be a good start.

It is a mess and SpaceX will be more than willing and capable of picking up the slack.

Hindsight is 20-20. The Air Force and ULA assumed that BO would be hungry to prove themselves like SpaceX.
 
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BO needs to make 50 BE-4s just for those 25 launches. New Glenns need 7 of them for each of their rockets. BO will really need to start manufacturing BE-4 in large numbers if they expect to meet both companies needs. 2 of them a month would be a good start.
Their Huntsville plant is supposed to be capable of 42 engines a year with 300 employees. But Blue Origin shortly afterwards staffed to double that number of employees. That means either that they want to double the output to 84 a year, or they were only getting perhaps half production on the first line and needed to do two lines to hit their desired production rate. I'm assuming the latter given that everyone there would be new to mass producing rocket engines. I'm sure SpaceX didn't hit their current rate of engine production right out of the gate.

That first mover advantage is a killer.

Hindsight is 20-20. The Air Force and ULA assumed that BO would be hungry to prove themselves like SpaceX.
Elon has fooled a lot of people into thinking that the stuff his companies do is easier than it is. Certainly the web is rife with people asserting that he's just riding other people's coattails and using other people's money.
 
When (not if) the Air Force/space force comes crawling back to SpaceX and asks for launch, I hope SpaceX doubles their rates, or at least charges what they would have paid to ULA.
There are some of the NROL/Space Force launches that can't be done by SpaceX because of the size of their fairing. SpaceX was supposed to increase the size of their fairing and set up a way to load payloads vertically. As far as I am aware. that hasn't happened.