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Kreisel's factory is very small compared to LG Chem's scale. Point being if a small player can do it for $140/kWh surely it's possible that LG Chem is NOT losing money at $145/kWh.According to this article Kreisel electric is using the same 18650 cells used by Tesla, so their pricing indeed does not apply to the pricing of cells for the Bolt. If anything, it proves that $145/kWh pricing revealed by Chevrolet indeed includes steep discount as compared to what LG Chem charges normally (+$100/kWh)
Not necessarily. The key is whether they use cylindrical cells or not.
Cylindrical cells have currently price advantage. If Kreisel using cylindrical cells, this price quote does not tell much about the cell pricing for Bolt.
According to this article Kreisel electric is using the same 18650 cells used by Tesla, so their pricing indeed does not apply to the pricing of cells for the Bolt. If anything, it proves that $145/kWh pricing revealed by Chevrolet indeed includes steep discount as compared to what LG Chem charges normally (+$100/kWh)
Kreisel's factory is very small compared to LG Chem's scale. Point being if a small player can do it for $140/kWh surely it's possible that LG Chem is NOT losing money at $145/kWh.
Aww, poor ICE companies stuck in oil age can't compete with direct sales in Internet age and are jealous. How cute. Grampa's dad on the front porch in his rocking chair talking about black gold before he passed away. Yes, Seeking Deceased Great Grampas. I'm sure he was Alpha in his time.Remember TSLA got SLAMMED this morning by an SA FUD article about these 500+ cars showing on Tesla.
Thx. Yup. Or they may have them down temporarily for "re-pricing". I've seen this happen in the past.
I don't know too much about Kreisel Electric and have no interest in debating them. They seem to be gaining credibility from many partnerships forming. Also the statement that you use to discount everything from them could simply be misunderstood by you or not communicated clearly from them. They could have meant they keep cells at a 30 degree constant via liquid cooling while Tesla's Powerwall has more temp fluctuation via liquid cooling. I don't know, just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit everything they're doing. Lastly sure cylindrical cells have a cost advantage but I haven't seen anyone present how large that cost advantage is over LG Chem's format. And I don't think people really know because cell suppliers keep their volume pricing confidential. I'm just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit LG Chem and what they're doing either. To say "surely they're losing money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions just as saying "surely they're making money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions as well. We don't know but I think in time we'll find out more.The point is that Bolt is not using cylindrical cells which have significant price advantage over other formats. Kreisel pricing can't be used to draw any conclusions on Bolt cell pricing, especially in the view of the misleading statements by their representatives, as demonstrated in my post above.
I don't know too much about Kreisel Electric and have no interest in debating them. They seem to be gaining credibility from many partnerships forming. Also the statement that you use to discount everything from them could simply be misunderstood by you or not communicated clearly from them. They could have meant they keep cells at a 30 degree constant via liquid cooling while Tesla's Powerwall has more temp fluctuation via liquid cooling. I don't know, just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit everything they're doing. Lastly sure cylindrical cells have a cost advantage but I haven't seen anyone present how large that cost advantage is over LG Chem's format. And I don't think people really know because cell suppliers keep their volume pricing confidential. I'm just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit LG Chem and what they're doing either. To say "surely they're losing money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions just as saying "surely they're making money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions as well. We don't know but I think in time we'll find out more.
I don't know too much about Kreisel Electric and have no interest in debating them. They seem to be gaining credibility from many partnerships forming. Also the statement that you use to discount everything from them could simply be misunderstood by you or not communicated clearly from them. They could have meant they keep cells at a 30 degree constant via liquid cooling while Tesla's Powerwall has more temp fluctuation via liquid cooling. I don't know, just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit everything they're doing. Lastly sure cylindrical cells have a cost advantage but I haven't seen anyone present how large that cost advantage is over LG Chem's format. And I don't think people really know because cell suppliers keep their volume pricing confidential. I'm just saying I don't think it's wise to discredit LG Chem and what they're doing either. To say "surely they're losing money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions just as saying "surely they're making money at $145/kWh" is making a lot of assumptions as well. We don't know but I think in time we'll find out more.
These Kreisel Electric guys appear to blow some seroiusly hot air, their claims just do not add up.
That's what they're doing. The software options are turned on and sold at turned off prices, and Tesla uses that discount as a karat. This includes 60-75kWh, AP, 72amp charger at the lower end and stuff like Ludicrous, battery upgrades, etc. at the upper end --- any software upgradable feature. I've been combing them with a fine tooth comb for a few days trying to find out if I should get one (and my requirements are odd which is why I didn't already find one and stop looking).Have anyone looked at the options on the different inventory/demo cars?
I've been wondering if Tesla is really only discounting the cars that have high-margin options. An S75 with autopilot and high-amp charger could be sold with a 13,000 USD discount and still bring in as much margin as an S60 without autopilot and high-amp charger.
Thanks, good to know.That's what they're doing. The software options are turned on and sold at turned off prices, and Tesla uses that discount as a karat. This includes 60-75kWh, AP, 72amp charger at the lower end and stuff like Ludicrous, battery upgrades, etc. at the upper end --- any software upgradable feature. I've been combing them with a fine tooth comb for a few days trying to find out if I should get one (and my requirements are odd which is why I didn't already find one and stop looking).
I have to say that the increased taste for better buyer's value this might start to leave in some current buyers' eyes would probably be easier to control if the next thing Tesla releases is some type of upgraded hardware that is more desirable and the regular margins are a non-issue, but even without that, I don't think Tesla is going to lose regular business.
I would guess this is because Solar accounting, discussed in detail, is onerous and Wheeler wanted someone else to do it. Interesting it's an outside hire when you are about to bring over a whole company - unless you are leaving their accounting and financial departments behind.Ummm. Ok I guess
Just so long as everyone understands that tesla already has a CFO
Tesla (TSLA) Taps SunPower's Branderiz as VP of Accounting
That's fine, Tesla will just have to software unlock the 125KWH battery pack thenRobert Carter says no problem, Toyota can just add a third hydrogen tank next month.
Toyota iterates quickly.