Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[McRat]

But the cars they sold to the public were absolute crap. Maybe a few could do OK in a drag, but the other 99% would have significant engine, transmission and electrical problems in a few years. And no, not 1980. Even in the very late 90s, the cars were extremely shitty. My mom's 1999 olds had problem after problem. I finally bought her a Hyundai over my dad's objections which has been remarkably pleasant and trouble free.

I'm sorry you hate to hear this, but other than a few GM diehards almost no one looks at GM and thinks "top tier car company." Where would GM be without fleet sales to rental agencies? When was the last time GM made a car that was on the top 10 models sold in the US? How many GM cars are out there driving with 200,000 miles on the odometer?

Maybe the Bolt is a decent car. Maybe. But to be GM quality & follow-through remains in the "now you need to prove it" bucket. Lets see in 24-36 months if GM is still supporting EVs and launching follow-on products. I really doubt it.

GM cut way back on their rental/fleet sales. You are thinking about a different company. GM Sales Set to Tumble as Automaker Shuns U.S. Rental-Car Market Love that title. GM did well after dropping rentals.

In fact, I can't find anything in your post that is true about GM today. Oldsmobile is gone.

All Vehicles, GM is either #2 or #1 with the Chevy Silverado. If you include the GMC Sierra, which is the same, it's #1.

For cars, 2 of the top 10 are Chevrolets.

I have dozens of friends in the "250 Club". These are Duramax owners with more than 250k miles on the original engine and trans. There are a few past 500,000, I forget who is on top.

One of my staff drives a 2000 Camaro (162mph version) that has over 220k on it so far on the original engine and trans.

I have no idea where you get your information from, but it's not from car data. Facebook? The Onion?

 

[diamond.g]

I have a crashed 2012 Volt array from 2013. I do not know the charge status when the car was scrapped.

After 3 year of sitting, I just grabbed 3 individual cells (DO NOT CUT OPEN VOLT ARRAYS. DANGER)

They are 3.86vdc IIRC, they were 3.91vdc 3.5 years ago.

They are LG cells - P20814841

96 x 3.86 = 370.6vdc for the array. Call it 370.

At 400v and 200a it would be 6kW on a DCFC.. A Volt will ALWAYS accept 60kW charging through regen. I bet this battery is no more than 1/2 charged.

Are you sure the math is right? (Bolded)

 

[ggies07]

Via: First Chevrolet Bolt EVs Delivered, Nationwide Release By Mid-2017

mid 2017 eh? Bad timing GM......Tesla is going to crush them with all the Model 3 news.

 

[bro1999]

mid 2017 eh? Bad timing GM......Tesla is going to crush them with all the Model 3 news.

News of the Model 3 being delayed?

Lol, sorry, but too easy.

 

[McRat]

Are you sure the math is right? (Bolded)

30 volts x 200 amps is 6 kW if the battery is already at 3.86vdc per cell, like my samples are = 370v for the 96s array.

Some folk think it is whatever volts you are supplying by whatever amps you supply. It's the delta of the voltage.

Otherwise, I could charge a 12 volt car battery with an 10 volt charger. Nope. If someone doesn't believe it's really easy to test.

 

[JRP3]

Some folk think it is whatever volts you are supplying by whatever amps you supply. It's the delta of the voltage.

You aren't "supplying" voltage, you supply current. You read voltage as an indication of SOC and use that information to modulate current.

Otherwise, I could charge a 12 volt car battery with an 10 volt charger. Nope. If someone doesn't believe it's really easy to test.

Your 10V charger simply has a 10V cut off point. Obviously if your charger shuts off at 10V you can't charge to a higher voltage, but that's because the 10V shut off point stops current flow.

 

[Jeff N]

30 volts x 200 amps is 6 kW if the battery is already at 3.86vdc per cell, like my samples are = 370v for the 96s array.

Some folk think it is whatever volts you are supplying by whatever amps you supply. It's the delta of the voltage.

I'm trying to understand what you are saying.

Your theory is that when the S85 is shown charging above at 116 kW it is the delta of the battery pack voltage at its present resting state of charge vs the charging voltage being applied that determines the power being added to the battery so you think that either:

1. The resting pack voltage before charging was maybe a few dozen volts, at best.

Or....

2. The pack isn't really being charged at 353V but instead you think the charger is really supplying ~350V more than the pack's resting voltage level of near 350V when empty and therefore the charging voltage actually being applied is around 700V.

Or....

3. You think the charger is applying a maximum rated Supercharger design voltage of maybe 500V and the current is really more like 770A so that 500V - 350V = 150V delta x 770A = 115.5 kW?

Or....

4. Maybe the pack isn't really charging at 116 kW even though it appears to fill up at that rate.

 

[Breezy]

Let's hope GM and Tesla both do well with their affordable EV models.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

30 volts x 200 amps is 6 kW if the battery is already at 3.86vdc per cell, like my samples are = 370v for the 96s array.

Some folk think it is whatever volts you are supplying by whatever amps you supply. It's the delta of the voltage.

Otherwise, I could charge a 12 volt car battery with an 10 volt charger. Nope. If someone doesn't believe it's really easy to test.

I disliked this post, because it's very bad info.

 

[JRP3]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying.

1. The resting pack voltage before charging was maybe a few dozen volts, at best.

Or....

2. The pack isn't really being charged at 353V but instead you think the charger is really supplying ~350V more than the pack's resting voltage level of near 350V when empty and therefore the charging voltage actually being applied is around 700V.

Or....

3. You think the charger is applying a maximum rated Supercharger design voltage of maybe 500V and the current is really more like 770A so that 500V - 350V = 150V delta x 770A = 115.5 kW?

Or....

4. Maybe the pack isn't really charging at 116 kW even though it appears to fill up at that rate.

Or he's completely wrong...

Here's a simple thought experiment for McRat:
Imagine a 275 volt nominal pack with a 300 volt max charge voltage.
One charger has a maximum cutoff voltage of 310V and can put out 50 amps max current.
The other charger has a maximum cutoff voltage of 400V and a max of 10 amps current.
Which charger can charge the pack faster?

 

[scaesare]

McRat, you are incorrect here.

Li-Ion charging schemes typically operate in a 2-stage scenario: first a constant-current phase(as JRP3 alludes to) , and then switching to a constant-voltage phase.

In the first, constant-current, phase, the amount of desired current is supplied (ie. the "constant"), and the voltage is allowed to float as a result of the current flow across the internal resistance of the battery pack. This voltage is indeed monitored to determine where in the desired curve the pack is at, and to thus modulate the desired current any point in time.

While true that the supply voltage must be greater than the pack voltage for current flow, total power delivered is not the product of the voltage delta multiplied by current, as you state. It is the product of the total voltage and current.

In the second, constant-voltage, stage: The supply voltage is held constant at the desired end-charge voltage, and the current allowed to vary. As the SoC rises towards the cutoff point, the amount of current will diminish as supply voltage approaches pack voltage. When the current flow drops below a specific threshold (often 50-100mA), the system will consider charging complete and stop current flow.

Note that this desired end-charge voltage may be less than cell rated voltage in order to increase longevity (as it's understood the Tesla packs do, they cut off at 4.15v despite the cells being rated at 4.2).

 

[30seconds]

GM cut way back on their rental/fleet sales. You are thinking about a different company. GM Sales Set to Tumble as Automaker Shuns U.S. Rental-Car Market Love that title. GM did well after dropping rentals.

In fact, I can't find anything in your post that is true about GM today. Oldsmobile is gone.

All Vehicles, GM is either #2 or #1 with the Chevy Silverado. If you include the GMC Sierra, which is the same, it's #1.

For cars, 2 of the top 10 are Chevrolets.

I have dozens of friends in the "250 Club". These are Duramax owners with more than 250k miles on the original engine and trans. There are a few past 500,000, I forget who is on top.

One of my staff drives a 2000 Camaro (162mph version) that has over 220k on it so far on the original engine and trans.

I have no idea where you get your information from, but it's not from car data. Facebook? The Onion?

Really? What if the two year depreciation for any GM car vs any Japanese or German brand? How about a 2014 Cadillac XTS platinum? Top of the line -$60k+ new, best sedan they made. Worth about 50% now?

What's that vs similar priced and size Lexus, BMW or Mercedes from that year?

How about the best selling Chevy sedan from that year vs similar Toyota, Honda or VW?

And we are not talking about trucks

 

[Bangor Bob]

Two year depreciation is totally irrelevant to GM - they're not holding the leases. As soon the car hits the dealer, GM is done with it (except for the inevitable recalls).


That said, I was quite happy to take advantage of Alli Bank's loss on the lease which resulted in my CPO Volt. That Model may well be the best screwed-together car GM has ever made (At least the 2011 and 2012 models, they started cheapening them after that).

 

[cwerdna]

Press release at Chevrolet Delivers First Bolt EVs to Customers.

I wonder if the other thread will get merged here making the above seem like a double post.

 

[JRP3]

The Bolt has landed! It's like I knew the info ahead of time or something.

First Chevrolet Bolt EVs Delivered, Nationwide Release By Mid-2017

I've never seen a less enthusiastic group of EV buyers. Send out an APB for missing EV grin

 

[McRat]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying.

Your theory is that when the S85 is shown charging above at 116 kW it is the delta of the battery pack voltage at its present resting state of charge vs the charging voltage being applied that determines the power being added to the battery so you think that either:

1. The resting pack voltage before charging was maybe a few dozen volts, at best.

2. The pack isn't really being charged at 353V but instead you think the charger is really supplying ~350V more than the pack's resting voltage level of near 350V when empty and therefore the charging voltage actually being applied is around 700V.

3. You think the charger is applying a maximum rated Supercharger design voltage of maybe 500V and the current is really more like 770A so that 500V - 350V = 150V delta x 770A = 115.5 kW?

4. Maybe the pack isn't really charging at 116 kW even though it appears to fill up at that rate.

DOH!! My apologies to everyone.

OK, I will need to do more testing. That 370v fed 400v = 6kW is most probably wrong.

I manually charge batteries using a variable power supply. But I'm not an electrical engineer.

 

[bro1999]

I've never seen a less enthusiastic group of EV buyers. Send out an APB for missing EV grin

Dude on the left is like "whatever....get this over with, I want to drive my Bolt!"
Middle guy looks like he's trying to smile but didn't quite make it.
Right guy has some Clint Eastwood-type thing going on...

 

[RubberToe]

Send out an APB for missing EV grin...

For the Bolt owners, grim is the new grin.

RT

 

[bro1999]

For the Bolt owners, grim is the new grin.

RT

Because driving around the world's first <$40k, 200+ mile BEV is something to be grim about. Lol

 

[bro1999]

So being in MD, I looked up the CCS presence in my area....not bad at all! Only place it would be sketchy going to is Western MD (Deep Creek Lake, etc...). I hear there are some CCS chargers planned for i-68 in that neck of the woods though.

Compare the above to Tesla's SC presence in MD. Underwhelming is an understatement.