Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[FreqFlyer]

can we rename this the dark and stormy thread ? seems like many posters are just dropping out it was a good run here while it lasted
the trolls have won... shame

This thread mimics the mood surrounding Tesla. When the stock was rising like a Falcon 9 rocket this was place was party. Now a little adversity and uncertainty and some posters want to quit. Then quit.

Or

Follow the example of the remaining Tesla workers and engineers who do their jobs assembling world-class cars despite going through two weeks of adversity and uncertainty and lost colleagues. They did and do not quit.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Or not. Your contrarian speculation is not substantive.

So maybe you'll find this important in the article you shared. The same article states that Zhu (head of CT manufacturing) said on his LinkedIn..
"After triumphing the epic launch of Cybertruck program and ramping the volume production line to the steady 1K/W throughput orbit for the past 16 months in GFTX, also 7 weeks after the 5th Tesla-versary, my adventure with this great company has come to an end."

Your storm clouds can't cloud reality. Keep trolling....err trying

I gave you a citation of how the company picks and chooses when to share manufacturing run rates and how subsequent weeks don't line up. But apparently that's over now and we should just trust anything they say!

 

[DarkandStormy]

Tesla stresses all it’s stockholders that it is important to vote.
Given the important subjects at hand in the vote that is only logical that Tesla does this.
But to suggest here now that “Elon has probably etc. etc.” comes out of thin air and is in my opinion pure FUD.
It serves no useful informational purpose.

It literally says "vote FOR"...

Just a CEO demanding $55bn and spending operating capital to make sure he gets it. Very normal.

 

[DarkandStormy]

can we rename this the dark and stormy thread ? seems like many posters are just dropping out it was a good run here while it lasted
the trolls have won... shame

Multiple shareholder who doesn't kiss the ground Elon walks on is now considered a troll. Sad!

Big shouts to the uber bulls who can actually discuss and debate their position with facts rather than plugging their head in the sand and using the ignore button to avoid questions that make them uncomfortable.

 

[DarkandStormy]

This is embarrassing.

 

[loquitur]

[....] So if a retail shareholder doesn't vote, the shares are still counted for quorum purposes and effectively are "no" votes. [....]

Has this changed? I always thought that the default vote for shares held in "street name" were
for whatever management wants.

 

[dl003]

Multiple shareholder who doesn't kiss the ground Elon walks on is now considered a troll. Sad!

Big shouts to the uber bulls who can actually discuss and debate their position with facts rather than plugging their head in the sand and using the ignore button to avoid questions that make them uncomfortable.

Im not an uber bull. I frequently short TSLA when the chart calls for it. I criticize Elon when appropriate. I think you are a troll. There are a few members of this forum who give honest and well thought out criticism of Elon, as well as well founded arguments against what they perceive as unwarranted bullish expectation. You are not one of those people. Just the other day you were caught red handed dishing out misinformation, then a few hours later you were at it again doing the exact same thing. I dont know what your ulterior motives are, but people like you ruin this board.

 

[[email protected]]

It literally says "vote FOR"...

Just a CEO demanding $55bn and spending operating capital to make sure he gets it. Very normal.

Elon's compensation is commensurate with his performance. That is the promise and what he bargained for. The legal issue is whether the company bargained for it. It is a bullshit issue in my view, but the times we live in are not based on contract, but based on wailing cries of victimhood and thievery. We witness a precipitous decline in honor and value...there are other places in the world where those concepts still mean something but not here.

 

[Doggydogworld]

It seems like Tesla should easily hit 75+% growth in GWh deployed in 2024. In 2023, they only deployed 11.7 GWh.

14.7 GWh.

 

[Musskiah]

Im not an uber bull. I frequently short TSLA when the chart calls for it. I criticize Elon when appropriate. I think you are a troll. There are a few members of this forum who give honest and well thought out criticism of Elon, as well as well founded arguments against what they perceive as unwarranted bullish expectation. You are not one of those people. Just the other day you were caught red handed dishing out misinformation, then a few hours later you were at it again doing the exact same thing. I dont know what your ulterior motives are, but people like you ruin this board.

🌩

 

[Musskiah]

View attachment 1046932
View attachment 1046933

This is embarrassing.

We'll take your word for it. You seem to have ample experince in all things embarrasing.

 

[CorneliusXX]

This is all my speculation, but I think the old business of building EVs, iterating to make it rock solid (no panel gaps, no production issues/delays, etc) is just not that interesting to Elon. Sorta like developers who only want to write code to prove something can be done, but they have, they have little or no interest in supporting it or making it actually work "good".

Before, no one has done a valid EV with range, charging, etc, now, nearly every manufacturer has something so it's nothing new now. It's boring to him. I would assume Elon would be much happier in a pure AI/Robotics/Mars mission/play at this point to go after more impossible things than something as boring as making an EV (especially a cheap $25k one).

He likes the intellectual challenge, not people managing, motivating.

All IMO. He doesn't need $$. He also wants the comp/shares for control I believe since he said he needs 25% so he can do whatever he wants without anyone challenging him. Some of the large shareholders who might vote against it maybe people who simply don't care about Elon/Ai and just wants a CEO who will make the best EV type company. xAI is sorta redundant if he wants more AI in Tesla.

We already know why he changed direction of the company.

The overwhelming focus is on solving full self-driving. That’s essential. It’s really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero.

We also have plenty of history that he was focused on making a profitable, rock solid EV for a profit - It's called his career at Tesla from 2003 to now.

 

[dl003]

Elon's compensation is commensurate with his performance. That is the promise and what he bargained for. The legal issue is whether the company bargained for it. It is a bullshit issue in my view, but the times we live in are not based on contract, but based on wailing cries of victimhood and thievery. We witness a precipitous decline in honor and value...there are other places in the world where those concepts still mean something but not here.

its a bit more nuanced than that, imho.
1. All the people voted for this plan in 2018 were rewarded with the stock price 10x. Unfortunately, a lot of those shares are now in the hand of new owners, many of whom bought in the 400s and 300s. Now down 40-60%, they have no contract with Elon.
2. Old shareholders have witnessed Elon selling shares in a reckless manner to buy Twitter. 25% control is something many are willing to give Elon, but who can guarantee he wont just turn around and sell them to buy something else? It sort of feels like asking people to donate bullets which may or may not be used on them later on. Self preservation is one hell of a motivation.

A lot of work to be done by the board here. Sad to say Elon brought half of this upon himself.

 

[durkie]

2. Old shareholders have witnessed Elon selling shares in a reckless manner to buy Twitter. 25% control is something many are willing to give Elon, but who can guarantee he wont just turn around and sell them to buy something else? It sort of feels like asking people to donate bullets which may or may not be used on them later on.

A lot of work to be done by the board here. Sad to say Elon brought half of this upon himself.

This captures my sentiment pretty well. His % ownership would be a lot higher if he hadn't sold off a ton of it. And then to come back months later and say "Actually I need 25% or else I might not feel comfortable developing AI products at Tesla" feels like a not-super-veiled threat.

And then hey if that works, why not ask for 30% a year from now? Who knows? I definitely trust him way less these days than in 2018.

 

[dl003]

This captures my sentiment pretty well. His % ownership would be a lot higher if he hadn't sold off a ton of it. And then to come back months later and say "Actually I need 25% or else I might not feel comfortable developing AI products at Tesla" feels like a not-super-veiled threat.

And then hey if that works, why not ask for 30% a year from now? Who knows? I definitely trust him way less these days than in 2018.

I trade with a lot of people. Smart, reasonable people. They have all bought a lot of TSLA in 2023 and 2024. They all think the company is doing well and Elon is brilliant as ever, but ask them if hes a boyscout and you will hear something different. Again, these are pro TSLA people. They neither love nor hate Elon. Well they actually like him for what he says on X but none of them thinks hes Ghandi. Almost everywhere I look its the same sentiment, which is why I think this proposal might see some challenges.

 

[Thekiwi]

Tesla stresses all it’s stockholders that it is important to vote.
Given the important subjects at hand in the vote that is only logical that Tesla does this.
But to suggest here now that “Elon has probably etc. etc.” comes out of thin air and is in my opinion pure FUD.
It serves no useful informational purpose.

I don’t recall any of the other companies I have invested in paying money to advertise an upcoming shareholder vote. Has anyone else ever seen that? This is a weird move.

 

[CorneliusXX]

I don’t recall any of the other companies I have invested in paying money to advertise an upcoming shareholder vote. Has anyone else ever seen that? This is a weird move.

It's also unheard of for the CEO comp package to be overturned due to, what I believe, is a politically hostile juristiction. Agree that advertising is weird but so are the underlying causes.

 

[2daMoon]

Regarding Elon's pay, what surprised me is the absence of any pay package going forward from where the previous one left off. Will this mean waiting for the next AGM to work that out? Could there be a special meeting once Tesla incorporates elsewhere?

As someone who wasn't a shareholder when the last package was voted on it still makes sense to me to pay the guy for his work.

However, there are good reasons not to expect some later shareholders to feel any obligation to vote for a pay package regarding past performance. There is less motivation for more recent shareholders to do so than there was for the original voters.

It could have been combined into a vote for a new pay package going forward, which if passed, enabled the prior package again. That might have found more support overall. But, there may be a perspective I'm unaware for why any new package is absent from this year's AGM.

No matter what happens, I like to think Elon is unlikely to take the vote personally, and the board will find another way to compensate him for those years past and the ones ahead. He wants voting rights more than he wants the money, but shares are made of money.

 

[johnm6875]

its a bit more nuanced than that, imho.
1. All the people voted for this plan in 2018 were rewarded with the stock price 10x. Unfortunately, a lot of those shares are now in the hand of new owners, many of whom bought in the 400s and 300s. Now down 40-60%, they have no contract with Elon.
2. Old shareholders have witnessed Elon selling shares in a reckless manner to buy Twitter. 25% control is something many are willing to give Elon, but who can guarantee he wont just turn around and sell them to buy something else? It sort of feels like asking people to donate bullets which may or may not be used on them later on. Self preservation is one hell of a motivation.

A lot of work to be done by the board here. Sad to say Elon brought half of this upon himself.

I voted my shares in 2018 because I thought it was a good contract for me as an investor. If the company was impossibly successful, then he and I'd do wonderfully. That was the deal. That deal was changed without my input or approval. I also have some shares purchased in the 200's and even a few in the 300's. Those were purchased knowing full well about the past contract with Elon Musk. I'm not about to dishonor the contract I made because the share price is in the black or red and Elon did this or that. The Board needs to evaluate those items for future contracts. For me there is very little nuance.

 

[ggr]

what action ? today was no different from the past few week s

Gee, thanks. Has it occurred to you that maybe you didn't see what the moderators did? Or undid, as the case may be?