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Car market IS slowing down. Elon even announced a while ago that he expected this would happen and here we are.

Lot’s of people are thinking that “Elon has killed the demand for Tesla.” The reality is the entire market has been slowing down. Teslas didn’t suddenly get undesirable in the last two quarters. EVs didn’t suddenly get less desirable in the last two quarters either. Just the opposite—there’s now a standard in North America and chargers are officially almost everywhere. Slowing car sales in general are why the other OEMS pulled back on EV production—EVs cause them to lose money so in an effort to save where they can, EV production was the first to go.

If only Tesla was having issues, this would have been the perfect time for other OEMs to raise prices a bit and get a leg up on Tesla’s EV production, but that’s not what happened.
q1 USA auto sales were UP 4.5%, projection is for strong continued growth. Or do you mean Tesla car market is slowing down? Or that EV sales are down?

I personally think that without lineup diversification and some new program on charging infrastructure you'll see issues with Tesla. Most massive new multi-family dwelling developments have paltry EV charging ability. I was in TX, Houston, last year and saw a brand new development with thousands of units planned. 4 charging stations, L2. I thought then that it was going to have to get addressed. Almost nobody in multi-family housing can seriously look at a full EV without an ability to charge at home and that means the garages or parking decks or parking lots need copious amounts of charging. Personally I think this is a giant issue and puts the growth in housing at odds with a growth in EV deployment. Many posters are this forum already have 2 teslas. These are not examples of new households adopting EVs and I think that also skews our perspective on total market penetration.
 
Car market IS slowing down. Elon even announced a while ago that he expected this would happen and here we are.

Lot’s of people are thinking that “Elon has killed the demand for Tesla.” The reality is the entire market has been slowing down. Teslas didn’t suddenly get undesirable in the last two quarters. EVs didn’t suddenly get less desirable in the last two quarters either. Just the opposite—there’s now a standard in North America and chargers are officially almost everywhere. Slowing car sales in general are why the other OEMS pulled back on EV production—EVs cause them to lose money so in an effort to save where they can, EV production was the first to go.

If only Tesla was having issues, this would have been the perfect time for other OEMs to raise prices a bit and get a leg up on Tesla’s EV production, but that’s not what happened.

This is true for EVs, but the hybrids have been doing particularly well and pretty much every other EV brand has had pretty positive (at least 50% YoY growth I've seen). The risk for Tesla is the only market they are in are EVs and consumers not rushing to buy EVs directly affects their sales much more vs. traditional ICE/hybrid OEMs since it's all < 5%/10% of their sales. We see it in all the reports/data that the slow EV growth was a Tesla problem, but since they are the market leader, it makes the whole market look bad.

Legacy are also scaling back because consumers are simply not buying EVs as much now and they don't need to make that many since the market isn't there at the levels of the past. The easy convincers of EVs are mostly already owners.

This is from Jan, but Toyota/Lexus/Honda are pretty low from data back then (they say 60 days is normal):

Data on other EV brands sales (yes, they are coming from a smaller base, but competition does eat Tesla's share when there were none years ago, almost why Elon is pivoting to FSD/AI/Robotics):
 
Who is this and what is up? Is it Tesla related? TSLA is definitely not up 40% yet today.

🤷‍♀️
Some trader who made money on $GME (by) federating a group of HODLers/gamblers on Reddit. They like to read tea leaves in memes and to circlejerk on the /r/wallstreetbets, just like we do here with Elon's infantile shitposts.
Keith Gill - Wikipedia
 
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Legacy are also scaling back because consumers are simply not buying EVs as much now and they don't need to make that many since the market isn't there at the levels of the past. The easy convincers of EVs are mostly already owners.
Legacy wouldn't scale back today if Tesla was still aggressively taking their market shares. That isn't the case anymore (for how long?).
 
..and, simply stay in its lane in daylight and dry weather, which the Mercedes system seems unable to do with any consistency in Omar's video.

Because they're using a highway only system on local roads.

It's ODD does not include, and it's not meant to handle intersections, oncoming traffic, and numerous other things they count as "interventions"

As already pointed out like 3 times now. Is some part of this hard to understand?



Mercedes purposely use definition loopholes in the SAE descriptions to market their cars' autonomous capabilities in a deceiving way because they lack actual USEFUL autonomous capabilities. You know this, so why are you defending such practices?

Because literally nothing you wrote is true and you're defending a completely garbage dishonest video at all costs just because it's pro Tesla. It's EXACTLY the trash we (also rightly) call out folks like Dan O'Dowd doing in the other direction.

Please cite the "loophole" they're using (and why you think it's one)

Please cite any actual deceptive words in Mercedes advertising about both the capabilities AND LIMITS of their L3 system


To be fair, this video from Omar is made in direct response to Consumer Reports rating Mercedes higher than Tesla...

Except Omar didn't compare the systems CR did.

Or test it in the conditions CR did.

Or within the actual ODD of the system as CR did.

So it's an incredibly dishonest and useless response once you apply a bit of critical thinking.

Which admittedly seems beyond a few uberbulls in here-- just as doing so to Dans videos does to the Q folks.
 
I think when people say 'people aren't buying EVs', this is in large part driven by statements from the likes of Ford about their EV pickup sales in the US. Its true that they are scaling those back, and despite repeated claims to be scaling, Rivian aren't producing huge numbers of their pickup either.
Not only is this just 2 cases of one market segment (pickup trucks) in one market (the USA), its also interestingly the market segment and market in which Tesla just expanded with the cybertruck.
We have absolutely no idea what the current market demand for the cybertruck is, because Tesla cannot yet make them fast enough. It is however very telling that they STILL are only making the hilariously high-priced foundation series.
I'll believe that there is a real problem in US demand for EVs when Tesla say they are offering special discounts and freebies for the cybertruck, but I certainly don't expect that to happen in 2024.

In 2025 I expect us to be talking about the robotaxi/next-gen and semi anyway.
 
Why have expensive ICE been selling better than EV recently when EV prices have dropped further?

When non-Tesla EV manufacturers slow down production, we should Tesla to sell more EV especially when Tesla reduce prices and improve their offering significantly.

A global slow down in auto sales should favor new entrants with high margin and low price, not expensive, low-margin incumbents with poor EV offering.

Tesla has trouble reaching prospects outside the early-adopters' customers segment. And their main action plan is to lower prices when people cearly don't know about the affordability of Tesla.
The market discrepancies are largely explained by income distributions, taking the US example:
Even though that 2022 data should a modest decrease in income inequality;
The effects of the income stability at the top 5% with increased pressure on the middle 40% or so is visible in market changes in 2023/2024, even though the historical published data has not yet displayed that. To be sure, unemployment data and inflation numbers are factors, but are indirect ones.

In nearly all categories reflecting the highest income and wealth categories there is clear evidence that sector is not suffering:
Business jet demand is usually a good indicator of the “
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Overall, in my opinion, global evidence in luxury hotels, air travel etc clearly shows high disposable income for the top income class.
People who fly frequently have all observed overbooked flights packed premium classes almost everywhere here.

So what about auto sales? Elon Musk saw the decline coming and said it well before it happened. Why was this surprising to anyone is a different question. First, through Covid-19 and supply dhortsges TSLA proved superior logistics, outstanding supply chain management and highly flexible manufacturing allow simply powering through while others suffered.

Then 2023 delivered multiple very difficult situations from, in US alone NHTSA, formal EV conference excluding Tesla. Elsewhere repeated Terrorist threats, IG Metall began… and…The equanimity-shattering political situations exacerbated by the Feb 2024 Delaware Chancery Court infamous decision.

All of that partly explains EV pressures, explains distraction at Tesla, but is not the global loser-range vehicle sales issues.

Those all are more nearly the result of abnormal pent-up demand almost globally in late 2022-2023 and post-pandemic demands drove demand . The missing link, in my opinion, is the effects of COVID-19:
- every aspect of home delivery has, almost around the globe, had lasting impact on purchasing, as people simply drive less, using delivery for food, consumer goods, even many medical services. That in turn has the direct effect of reducing personal vehicle demand.
- ride sharing (Uber etc) has vastly reduced usage of personal vehicles while not having direct measurable effect on owning them.

These are all cumulative and each might have negligible effects, but the aggregate of these is huge.

Those who are convinced of Robotaxi see almost all of these as evidence for mass adoption. They are all evidence of gradually weakening demand for less affluent people to buy cars.

None of the markets are disappearing. The traditional new vehicle sales among less affluent people are, unquestionably, reducing in size and purchasing capacity.

Just glance at the progression of incentives in Automotive News both US and Europe, and a national data elsewhere. The developments are clear.

Then think about how distracted Tesla CEO may have been last year.
 
Because they're using a highway only system on local roads.

It's ODD does not include, and it's not meant to handle intersections, oncoming traffic, and numerous other things they count as "interventions"

As already pointed out like 3 times now. Is some part of this hard to understand?





Because literally nothing you wrote is true and you're defending a completely garbage dishonest video at all costs just because it's pro Tesla. It's EXACTLY the trash we (also rightly) call out folks like Dan O'Dowd doing in the other direction.

Please cite the "loophole" they're using (and why you think it's one)

Please cite any actual deceptive words in Mercedes advertising about both the capabilities AND LIMITS of their L3 system




Except Omar didn't compare the systems CR did.

Or test it in the conditions CR did.

Or within the actual ODD of the system as CR did.

So it's an incredibly dishonest and useless response once you apply a bit of critical thinking.

Which admittedly seems beyond a few uberbulls in here-- just as doing so to Dans videos does to the Q folks.
The loophole comes from the garbage SAE that doesn't clearly define capabilities and yet assign them levels in which you can have extremely capable autonomous features as L2 and garbage capable systems as L3. The public doesn't understand this so mercedes having zero problem advertising their cars are the first L3 as if it has more capabilities than any autonomous systems out there. How is this not a BS loophole?

If mercedes L2 can drive as well as a Tesla and designate a special circumstance for L3, then sure I concede this type of marketing is not misleading. But you know this is not the case..their system can't do basic autonomous things like stopping at a stop light and yet get to plaster L3 all over their ads. As of today, you know 99% of the population will only look at bigger numbers as better and more capable. It's actually dangerous for someone who has experienced FSD L2 and thinks their brand new L3 mercedes will be as good if not better, then gets T-boned at a red light.
 
As of today, you know 99% of the population will only look at bigger numbers as better and more capable. It's actually dangerous for someone who has experienced FSD L2 and thinks their brand new L3 mercedes will be as good if not better, then gets T-boned at a red light.

Well, at least those who keep worrying about "What will happen after the first autonomous fatality" are now more likely to get their answer, only it may come from an incident with a Mercedes rather than a Tesla.
 
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More news today of the Model 2 cancellation/shelving/insert term here.