Why Do Electricians Charge So Much To Install EV Outlets?

[North75]

Phase to phase or phase to ground? Line to ground is 'only' 277v.

Phase to ground of course. So 1 phase of a 3 phase 480V power supply Pretty sure I'd be dead if it was phase to phase.
The bad one was when I Inadvertently brushed a large copper busbar in a ~1MW power supply feeding electric heating elements while trying to take voltage readings.
This was before all of the new industrial arc flash PPE regulations. I'm pretty confident the non-conductive soles of my workboots probably saved me. On the other hand I probably should have had better gloves on.
Needless to say I haven't been shocked in the 20 years since that happened. It was decidedly an eye opener.
(The other case was getting too close to an unseen nick in the insulation on some wiring feeding a 480V motor. That hurt, but not nearly as bad)

 

[Bill25cycle]

Let's face it, we all touched 120V before we were 4 years old lol

I kinda doubt some of this stuff..... When I was 10 I apparently touched the 250 volt "B+" line in a 1930's console radio (called that since portable radios had A batteries for the heaters, B for the plate (tube) supply;, and a bias 'C' battery for the grids) by reaching around the back of it and apparently glancing across a tube pin, and while I don't remember touching it I remember picking myself up off the floor sometime later....

The only other time this happened, was when working as a maintenance electrician in a food processing plant at 23 years of age, when someone complained 'there is something wrong with this Conveyor Line'. As it was on the only floor of the plant that had 277Y/480 I was trying to be 'extra careful' but just touched the conveyor, and sometime later, picked myself up off of a puddle of water on the floor....Of course, the ground wire at the plug of the unit had come undone, and the cleaning water was causing conduction to the case.

Most 120 volt to ground shocks are much less eventful, but there are some industrial settings in the states with 240, 277, 480, or 600 to ground, and I'm not even sure about surviving a good 240 volt shock, or even a shock off the DC side of a series string solar panel installation (my house runs around 450 vdc)....

But for most homes (99.9999% of them), in North America, all shocks are 120 volts, whether the branch circuit is 120 or 240.

But a local school just 'modernized' from 120Y/208 to 277Y/480, and a week after the job was complete, a fellow electrician was electrocuted, something that hadn't happened in the 75 years the school existed up until that time..... So even electricians need to be reminded about safety - although on those larger circuits most electricians actually die from 'arc flash trauma' (like being in the middle of a bomb). 208 volt circuits will usually 'burn clear', whereas the 277 volt stuff is just enough to burn and explode out of control. Current limiting fusing and 'lug limiters' are always a good idea for that kind of thing.

 

[North75]

So even electricians need to be reminded about safety - although on those larger circuits most electricians actually die from 'arc flash trauma' (like being in the middle of a bomb). 208 volt circuits will usually 'burn clear', whereas the 277 volt stuff is just enough to burn and explode out of control. Current limiting fusing and 'lug limiters' are always a good idea for that kind of thing.

Do a search for arc flash accidents on Youtube for some truly scary stuff. It's amazing how much force electricity can impart when things go wrong.
Makes the argument for not doing you own electrical work yourself if you are not a trained electrician a little stronger.

 

[nwdiver]

Do a search for arc flash accidents on Youtube for some truly scary stuff. It's amazing how much force electricity can impart when things go wrong.
Makes the argument for not doing you own electrical work yourself if you are not a trained electrician a little stronger.

Ever see what happens when two cars hit each other doing ~55mph head on? We take risks everyday. DIY electrical work probably doesn't even crack the top ten. It's really not hard. I'm not licensed or professionally trained but I do DIY electrical work A LOT. I've never seen an arc flash I wasn't expecting.

People having the motivation to learn how to do something themselves is a GOOD thing. We shouldn't discourage it.

 

[Cheburashka]

I installed a Dryer Buddy Auto to charge my Tesla. Cheaper than an electrician, effortless to install, and doesn't take up a breaker space on the panel that I can use for something else. Luckily, the laundry room is adjacent to the garage in my house.

 

[North75]

Ever see what happens when two cars hit each other doing ~55mph head on? We take risks everyday. DIY electrical work probably doesn't even crack the top ten. It's really not hard. I'm not licensed or professionally trained but I do DIY electrical work A LOT. I've never seen an arc flash I wasn't expecting.

People having the motivation to learn how to do something themselves is a GOOD thing. We shouldn't discourage it.

At least in a car you can see the kinetic energy in motion. Not so much with electricity. It's one of things that until you witness an arc flash you won't know the potential of how bad it can be. It's the one you're not suspecting that will injure or kill you. I've never seen a bad one occur in person... only the aftermath.
I agree that you can work on electricity safely if you know what you are doing. (I just question who actually does)

 

[nwdiver]

I agree that you can work on electricity safely if you know what you are doing. (I just question who actually does)

I generally compare it to cooking. If you're cognitively capable of cooking chicken without hurting, burning or poisoning yourself you're probably able learn how to DIY some household electrical stuff. I remember my sister cut her finger pretty good once making a salad... she was holding the knife backwards. She probably shouldn't do electrical work if she can't make a salad...

 

[CyberGus]

She probably shouldn't do electrical work if she can't make a salad...

Every house I've ever bought had "umm custom" electrical work done. None was to code and some downright dangerous.

It seems like DIY'ers are just not very good at it (present company excluded, of course).

 

[North75]

I generally compare it to cooking. If you're cognitively capable of cooking chicken without hurting, burning or poisoning yourself you're probably able learn how to DIY some household electrical stuff. I remember my sister cut her finger pretty good once making a salad... she was holding the knife backwards. She probably shouldn't do electrical work if she can't make a salad...

I really think you might be giving some people too much credit.

 

[nwdiver]

Every house I've ever bought had "umm custom" electrical work done. None was to code and some downright dangerous.

It seems like DIY'ers are just not very good at it (present company excluded, of course).

.... how can you tell? I've seen some down-right dodgy 'professional' electrical work too. It's rare for electrical inspectors to actually inspect anything.

 

[Bill25cycle]

At least in a car you can see the kinetic energy in motion. Not so much with electricity. It's one of things that until you witness an arc flash you won't know the potential of how bad it can be. It's the one you're not suspecting that will injure or kill you. I've never seen a bad one occur in person... only the aftermath.
I agree that you can work on electricity safely if you know what you are doing. (I just question who actually does)

Although I may be giving work away, (as an electrician), I never discourage someone from doing their own work unless I suspect they are a 'big expert', careless, or uncommunicative or going to hold me responsible for something for which I've had nothing to do - but normal 'mechanically inclined' people can do this if they exercise a healthy fear about things...

In a residential situation, with the possible exception of some 300 or 400 ampere electric services, the amount of arc flash energy is limited, but I have heard cases of some of the skinnier workers being blown to floor, and of course, in such cases eye protection is mandatory.

Another thread here talks about (with photos) of the super chintzy Leviton crap being used for 14-50R chinese receptacles, as compared to US made Bryant and Hubbell products... That is the other problem for a homeowner, as Underwriter's Laboratories (UL) is a mere shell of what they used to be. There is little point to that organization any longer if they won't draw attention to inferior products.

That chinese fire-starter crap is so gawd-awful that I'm really surprised teslas charging using the old 40 ampere cords (that has its own crappyness) hasn't started more fires when combined with the Leviton. I always use METAL boxes and build them away from stiles, rails and wood studs using extender boxes if necessary. Not the prettiest, but at least the homeowner can sleep soundly knowing his garage isn't going to start smoking or worse.

 

[spokey]

.... how can you tell? I've seen some down-right dodgy 'professional' electrical work too. It's rare for electrical inspectors to actually inspect anything.

Some years ago, I almost failed an electrical inspection. Not for my extensive basement wiring. Not for the subpanel i ran or the 220 for the dryer. Just for original construction.

 

[SSedan]

Years ago i was running a planer in a wood shop. One of the other machines magnetic switches had failed and someone was trying to "hotwire" it so we could run it with just the main power cutoff.
Wearing proper hearing protection for the environment we still heard to pop and saw the flash and Dennis was stumbling down the ladder backwards from a cloud of black smoke. Had burns and blisters instantly...........that day i learned from another person's mistake and alway double or triple check energy sources.

As such worst electrical hit by I have taken was aftermarket high output ignition on a car, and my elbow hurt worse than the hand that got hit because i rapped it hard when i jerked away.

It all needs respect and care but a thoughtful homeowner is capable of just about anything a house could need. A LOT of professionals are only defined as such because they get paid to do something not based on the quality of their work.

 

[westie10019]

This is a reminder to anyone looking to save some money and DIY that electricity can kill.
The right combinations of voltage and amperage will kill you if it goes across your heart. Stun guns use thousands of volts at low amperage and the circuit is usually not completed across your heart. 100-200 milliamps (0.1A-0.2A) seems to be the sweet spot to die (from as little as a few tens of volts) to cause ventricular fibrillation. Higher current causes clamping which flat out stops the heart which is more survivable if someone watching you trying to save some money knows CPR. So, keep that in mind when working on a circuit that is hundreds of volts and thousands of milliamps.

Just a national safety stat, %90 of deaths due to electrical accidents are a result of contact with LOW VOLTAGE! According to the National Electrical Code, LOW VOLTAGE is any voltage less than 600 Volts. Just saying! I agree %100 with the above comments, keep in mind these current ratings are for adults in good physical condition. Electricity is a profession, not a hobby!

 

[Bill25cycle]

Just a national safety stat, %90 of deaths due to electrical accidents are a result of contact with LOW VOLTAGE! According to the National Electrical Code, LOW VOLTAGE is any voltage less than 600 Volts. Just saying! I agree %100 with the above comments, keep in mind these current ratings are for adults in good physical condition. Electricity is a profession, not a hobby!

When you are in a bad situation, it matters not what self appointed experts call low voltage. I can tell you that there is a WORLD of difference between 120Y/208 and 277Y/480 (Canadians have even more danger at 347Y/600), and the same grade installation that will quietly burn clear at 208 will Go out with a huge flash and a bang - destroying the equipment. When working on any commercial/industrial installation, I first look to see how much energy is available (how STOUT it is), and if I get a foreboding feeling, I then check to see if quick acting CURRENT LIMITING fusing is AHEAD of what I'm working on.

I feel much safer when the job allows me to turn the thing completely OFF first.

Whenever I hear a professional electrician dying - it is because he was working on a 277Y/480 circuit, and something that was never supposed to happen, happened - Like being in the middle of an equipment explosion.

 

[meitschis]

My quote is 3000$. Add one breaker to a panel and about 30ft of surface conduit run. Doesn't include the wall connector, but does include the city permit....

My quote is $2500+ for the same. As a breaker, 30ft of surface conduit...

 

[meitschis]

My quote is $2500+ for the same. As a breaker, 30ft of surface conduit...

Wow I reply to myself now...

 

[westie10019]

Glad you did it yourself. It really isn't a hard thing to do, especially when you are installing the outlet or HPWC next to the panel.

However, any professional...whether it's plumbing or electrician or gardener, has overhead besides the hour. I don't think a minimum of $300 is that bad for an hour's work when you consider he has to get the parts, travel to your location, actually do the work...and most importantly...warranty the work and place his work under the scrutiny of inspectors. Further, s/he needs to pay liability insurance if that circuit catches fire and burns down your house. For a true professional, a minimum job charge of $250-300 isn't terrible.

Its all fun and games until you have a problem and break down or fire! Then the fun begins, first with the Fire Investigation, then Insurance Investigation, not to mention the potential of loss of life from a resulting fire! Qualified electricians spend many years learning their trade with an approved apprentice program, work study, practical work experience. This is a 5-7 year process of study, work, testing and dedication!

I have been thru the IBEW apprentice program and it was not easy. 2-3 nights of school for 4 years all while working 8 hours a day on the job. Testing and constant improvement of skills and knowledge. If you don't pass your test along the way you have two chances to pass the test, if you fail twice your out of the program. NO EXCUSE or SNOWFLAKE Stuff, you had the chance and you blew it.

Electrical work is not a hobby! Because when electrical work is done wrong, people get hurt or die!

 

[Ostrichsak]

Its all fun and games until you have a problem and break down or fire! Then the fun begins, first with the Fire Investigation, then Insurance Investigation, not to mention the potential of loss of life from a resulting fire! Qualified electricians spend many years learning their trade with an approved apprentice program, work study, practical work experience. This is a 5-7 year process of study, work, testing and dedication!

I have been thru the IBEW apprentice program and it was not easy. 2-3 nights of school for 4 years all while working 8 hours a day on the job. Testing and constant improvement of skills and knowledge. If you don't pass your test along the way you have two chances to pass the test, if you fail twice your out of the program. NO EXCUSE or SNOWFLAKE Stuff, you had the chance and you blew it.

Electrical work is not a hobby! Because when electrical work is done wrong, people get hurt or die!

Well aren't you impressive. Are you going to spread this FUD across every electrical related thread on this forum Sparky?

 

[glide]

Its all fun and games until you have a problem and break down or fire! Then the fun begins, first with the Fire Investigation, then Insurance Investigation, not to mention the potential of loss of life from a resulting fire! Qualified electricians spend many years learning their trade with an approved apprentice program, work study, practical work experience. This is a 5-7 year process of study, work, testing and dedication!

I have been thru the IBEW apprentice program and it was not easy. 2-3 nights of school for 4 years all while working 8 hours a day on the job. Testing and constant improvement of skills and knowledge. If you don't pass your test along the way you have two chances to pass the test, if you fail twice your out of the program. NO EXCUSE or SNOWFLAKE Stuff, you had the chance and you blew it.

Electrical work is not a hobby! Because when electrical work is done wrong, people get hurt or die!

I have come across more issues with “professional” electricians work than I care for. At least if I’m doing it myself, I know it is being done correctly. Having it done correctly at less than 90% of the cost is just a bonus.