where next with Tesla prices in the UK?

[thegruf]

(not a post I ever wanted to write, I am a huge supporter of Tesla but I am highly critical of the recent abrupt price changes and the damage this is causing to existing owners (sic supporters & ambassadors) and the wider Tesla market in the UK at least)

So.
sold mine a short while back.
lost a ton of money (20K) thanks to Tesla previous price hack and in no small part due to Tesla service hanging on to mine for a week and a half for a service that should have been completed on the day, during which time the prices plummeted and i lost my original buyer.
Sure I was seriously unhappy; but I felt worse for the peeps that had recently bought new and lost far more.

Now Tesla has done it again and knocked sizeable chunks off MS prices.
More recent buyers irritated no doubt, and more earache for poor front line sales guys trying to reason Tesla's actions.
I am just thinking thank goodness I got rid when I did.

Smart companies set price points and fiddle around with specs to provide special deals, not mash the prices to a poisonous pulp.

The used market right now is a total mess with dealers offering lesser cars for more than the cost of a new one.
Used prices will have to adjust substantially down in months to come, by iro 30% tapering to 10% dependent on age, likely causing significant pain to that market too. Buying used is absolutely only for the brave or suicidal at this time.

This costs all of us owners dearly. It also makes a mockery of the "fuel cost savings" Tesla so proudly claim on their website, as these are irrelevant when the owner just sees up to 40K knocked off the value of the car they just bought. Upcoming for MS is new interior (as trailled by no less than Elon himself) and almost essentially a new 2170 based battery and likely more. Next year is new battery tech (Elon again) and 2021 sees a replacement model (yes- that's Elon yet again). All good stuff for sure but ...

We all know cars are not investments. They lose money in a steady and fairly predictable way from which we estimate the cost of ownership. That play book just got torn to shreds.

(sure financing gives some security albeit at a sizeable cost and presumably rates will adjust once additional depreciation is factored in and GFVs are depressed and financing is generally not a great option for higher mileage owners such as myself).

Conclusion is: Buy a Tesla now and you'll own an expensive financially unpredictable liability.

And for that reason I doubt i'll be buying a Tesla again soon.
And damn that hurts so much to say.
Thank you Tesla.

 

[WannabeOwner]

And for that reason I doubt i'll be buying a Tesla again soon.

Elon's playing with the Demand Levers desperate that you should ...


Spoke to a young lad today who has bought an A5 - his pride and joy no doubt

The discussion about the hours he spent with the salesman (who knew nothing about the car ...) and how each one found was "The only one like it in the country" and included THIS or THAT upsell ... followed by the obligatory "I'll nip upstairs and run the figures with my boss" which we all know is "how much can we screw this loser for" ... followed by "Can't get that one, but there is another one with ANOTHER upsell. Only one in the country to that spec" ...

I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it isn't Dealer Wheeler ...

But why Tesla need to YoYo the RRP I have no idea. I don't remember that happening until recently?

 

[NorfolkMustard]

Leasing may make more sense in these unpredictable times.

 

[LukeT]

It's irritating for sure. I placed an order only 2 weeks ago. In the month or so while I was making my decision the prices went down, then up, then up again. Along the way the specs changed and at least one option disappeared. 2 weeks after ordering the prices have dropped by £2,800 again, to roughly where they were before the last 2 little increases. I guess I'll have to cancel and reorder and lose 2 weeks since the sales people appear to have no leeway to move outside of web available options and prices.

Hard to see them getting away with this once the competition turns up.

 

[gangzoom]

Leasing may make more sense in these unpredictable times.

Why? There is no reason why you need to change these cars, a 2014 Model S is still a fantastic car, much better than a 2014 BMW/Audi etc.

If you WANT to keep on changing cars than leasing/PCP is great. But no one is forcing anyone to swap their cars every few years.

Our 2017 X is the best car I've ever owned. We paid for it outright, and 24k in have no interest in selling/swapping.

The fact Tesla keeps on updating the software means our car is more functional now than ever. We also bought FSD in the recent 'sale', providing Tesla doesn't go bankrupt it will mean our car will remain bang-uptodate on the AP front.

If we could justify swapping to a new car every few years we would have leased/PCP. £71k is alot of cash to spend on a car in one go, but we plan to keep our till at least the battery/motor warrsnty ends. At current rate of use the car will have done 130k+ by that time, even if the car is worth £0 in 8 years that 50p per mile depreciation which isnt bad.

Fundamentally spending this kind of money on ANY car is mad, but I absolutely love our X, it's simply redefined what a family wagon should be able to do, and to this day I cannot help but smile when I get into the car .

 

[gangzoom]

Sure I was seriously unhappy; but I felt worse for the peeps that had recently bought new and lost far more.

When did you buy your?

In 2015 a RWD 70S was £49k with leather, and in 2016 our X was £64k before options.

Even with the £3k drop in price of the X, the same car in same spec as ours is around £9k more than what we paid for our pretty much identical car!!!

I would agree with your comments on recent S/X owners been exposed to worst deprecation. Yes I know the £ has dropped in value but as consumers thats not our worry, Tesla needs to sort it or loss bussiness.

Even the Model 3 SR+ pricing is nuts, £39k UK versus $39k in the US. We really are getting an awful 'deal' here in the UK - We actually put in a SR+ order a few weeks ago before coming to our sesnes, deposit money now refunded by Tesla.

Tesla are in serious trouble currently, I as actually think they may fold by the end of the year. The cars are great but far far too expensive still.

Musk sold a vision of EVs getting cheaper as production ramps up but prices are going the opposite direction. Tesla have a demand issue, and its all down to pricing. The fact Tesla haven't dropped prices more is worrying, as it suggests there is fundamental problem with profit margins on these cars.

I may well put our X on the market in the summer if Tesla Q2 figures look awful, I love the car, but I don't want to be stuck with a 2.5ton paper weight on the drive - I would happily take £50k for it, so £850/month total cost over 2.5 years which isnt too bad spend for a £76k car.

Would I buy a brand new Tesla today, right now?? Despite loving our X, not a chance, lease/pcp or cash, no way would I touch any Tesla right now, especially a brand new S/X order.

As you sad, makes me sad to write that but numbers don't lie. The EQC looks good though, but in reality I'll probably go back to a cheap as chips Leaf before getting another 'premium' EV if Tesla ends up bankrupt - Actually Tesla going kaput may kill off the whole EV trend, as I cannot see other manufactures wanting to jump on board a sinking ship .

 

[gangzoom]

It's irritating for sure. I placed an order only 2 weeks ago.
.

If your still in the 14 day 'cool off period' you can cancel and get all your deposit back. There is an address to write to on your order email.

Seriously if you haven't comitted fully, keep your cash. Tesla are on the verge of starting a fire sale, now isn't the time to buy one of these things.

 

[thegruf]

imo

• Tesla are not going bust.
• There is a small chance that somebody very big will invest in/take controlling interest
• Elon himself has magnified the Osborne effect by trailling some of the forthcoming updates, we all know new stuff is coming but this should never be publicised as the damage is huge.
• It is clear to see just how stretched Tesla were to get the Model3 into production, undoubtedly this left no resource to apply updates to the ModelS/X to match inevitably leading to a dip in sales. These updates will progressively come on stream as soon as Tesla can have them ready.
• Leasing is always an option, but will (should) always cost more, and generally the higher the mileage, the worse the deal.
• The EQC is a utter disappointment with nothing to offer whatsoever other than to a MB driver who wants to look eco and who has no wider interest in BEVs. I expected a lot better from MB.
• There is a huge difference between "you got lucky and got the "all options" deal and "what the ... they just knocked 10 grand off and screwed my resale". Tesla really need to learn this and fast and stop alienating their owners/supporters/ambassadors and sales staff.

 

[DJP31]

sold mine a short while back.
lost a ton of money (20K) thanks to Tesla previous price hack and in no small part due to Tesla service hanging on to mine for a week and a half for a service that should have been completed on the day, during which time the prices plummeted and i lost my original buyer.
Sure I was seriously unhappy;

Presumably circumstances dictated that you had to sell the car and crystallise the loss?

 

[LEE3]

If reports were accurate in Apple making an offer @ $240 a share in 2016 you would think Tesla would be an even greater proposition now should that scenario materialise. For this reason I don’t believe they would ever fold. They would be bought out long before being wound up.

 

[J1mbo]

This is absolutely the Osbourne effect. Magnified by the constant negativity from some parts of the market.

Elon would do better if he announced limited edition colours than announcing product improvement roadmaps.

Tesla are struggling because of the trade war with China, and automotive sales are down globally (look at JLR'3.6 billion loss) and they are stretched in many directions at once.

The current situation is a blip. When the China gigafactory comes online it will have a massive positive impact, as will availability of Y.

Now Elon, where is the expensive but desirable matt black paint option for my M3? Oh, I can only get it on the P..?

 

[thegruf]

Presumably circumstances dictated that you had to sell the car and crystallise the loss?

sadly yes, mileage and I prefer not to own cars outside warranty

 

[gangzoom]

Tesla are struggling because of the trade war with China, and automotive sales are down globally (look at JLR'3.6 billion loss) and they are stretched in many directions at once.

The current situation is a blip. When the China gigafactory comes online it will have a massive positive impact, as will availability of Y.

And what if China chooses to 'kill' the Shanghai factory as part of the trade war. The Chinese government rule with an iron fist, it really doesn't matter what aggements are currently in place with Tesla the Party ALWAYS comes first, if they feel the need to hurt US pride they will action quicker than Elon can write a tweet.

 

[gangzoom]

imo

• Tesla are not going bust.

I disagree, Tesla have been exposed to this kind of news since existence, however the difference now is they aren't in control of their own fate.

Battery prices and the US/China trade war is far beyond anything Tesla can influence. If Tesla could sell a $35k Model 3 they would be doing it right now and we wouldn't be having this debate, the fact they aren't is the biggest warning how close to the edge Tesla is.

There is a storm gathering and am not sure Tesla is ready to swim.

 

[jsteele]

I disagree, Tesla have been exposed to this kind of news since existence, however the difference now is they aren't in control of their own fate.

Battery prices and the US/China trade war is far beyond anything Tesla can influence. If Tesla could sell a $35k Model 3 they would be doing it right now and we wouldn't be having this debate, the fact they aren't is the biggest warning how close to the edge Tesla is.

There is a storm gathering and am not sure Tesla is ready to swim.

Even if Tesla were to go bankrupt I don't think it would mean the end of Tesla - The tech and the brand recognition are too valuable (I hope) and they would be bought by one of the bigger car manufacturers. I don't think this would put me off buying a car from Tesla now.

 

[Jonah125]

I'm more concerned that if I buy the SR+, he will inevitably introduce the RWD LR version to Europe.

 

[LEE3]

In my view the 35K model 3 will appear when enough people stop buying the 40k Model 3. Surely this makes business sense. Once the demand tails off the next round of production on the low spec 3’s will ramp up. Maybe they need this new battery technology to improve margins. Either way it makes sense to sell the higher priced versions before the low spec.

 

[KennethS]

I'm more concerned that if I buy the SR+, he will inevitably introduce the RWD LR version to Europe.

I would expect that once supply catches up with demand more configuration options will become available. Just a WAG on my part.

I guess I am fortunate that I had always planned on the LR AWD configuration and was glad it was one of the choices in this first wave.

 

[Avendit]

I think the pricing farce is party because of the transparency selling over the web brings. Other manufacturers are just as bad, just their configurators always list some nominal 'list price' which almost no one ever pays. There is always a special discount this week, or an extra option included this week, or a we can add the extra sound pack of you sign today sir - it makes it impossible to price compare really and it's the sales people's jobs to ensure you walk out a)with a car and b) feeling like you got a good deal.

Only the Tesla board know the true situation on the whole bust/not bust thing. But having worked at a certain bank whose shares traded at 12p for a while for 10 years (no more), the share price isn't a huge concern to me. I think it was valued speculatively and what we are seeing is an adjustment to value them as the size of car company they actually are.

There are those that are blind and pushing the negative side and the are those that are fans (which I count my self as, drank the musk-aid years ago) that push the positive side and won't accept any criticism what so ever. They both have opinions formed around being clusters of facts, stories and spin. The truth is somewhere in the middle, probably.

I'm awaiting my UK M3 delivery and will judge the car on its merits. As long as it's well after together I'll accept it and probably end up paying some kind of early adopter fee. And while I don't think Tesla will evaporate any time soon, even if it did the super chargers would continue to exist, possibly rebranded and more expensive, but there, and other charging should exist that would get me on 99%+ of my journeys with no special consideration.

I am glad I didn't buy stock tho.

Avendit
(Sorry for any weirdnesses, that was a bit long for the phone...)

 

[Peteski]

I still think Tesla's future is looking strong. They have great products and are still very much setting the EV benchmark. Model 3 is getting rave reviews around the world, production is ramping up and Model Y is getting close to production. S/X will need further investment to extend beyond 2020, but that's to be expected. The competition is still dragging its heels too and first gen EV offerings from Audi, Merc, etc look pretty uninspired. So just ordered a Model 3 Performance to go with our X. Nothing else interested us in that class and there were no other EV options to even compete.