When traveling, do you bother with trying to find hotels with EV charging? Can you depend on them?

[SidetrackedSue]

L3 might be a stretch; my understanding is that it's at least a couple hundred thou for all the electronics, transformers, and what all; but $100k will pay for a lot of L2 chargers. Which for patrons staying overnight is all that they really need.

So on a 200 room property, by 2035 when only EVs should be available as new vehicles, how many of those rooms will be occupied by EV drivers?

If we say half (and that percentage only increasing), will $100K pay for 100 L2s (and their ongoing maintenance?) That would be a dream. But, let's be honest, how many hotel owners are going to make that sort of investment. They will be more likely to advertise their proximity to L3 charging stations, than offer enough L2s for all their customers.

Currently, I live in an apartment and people want and L2 to be put into our outdoor parking lot so people can charge at home. I just don't understand how that's going to work. Overnight, I'd get a full charge in summer, so would 1. have to leave my car outside overnight and 2. only be able to charge fully once a week if there are more than 7 EV owners in my building with 450 apartments. We can stretch that to 14 if half the EV owners are WFH or retired so can charge in the daytime. But in the winter, when our range drops and charging also slows in the cold, charging just once a week won't be enough.

 

[SVMike]

So on a 200 room property, by 2035 when only EVs should be available as new vehicles, how many of those rooms will be occupied by EV drivers?

If we say half (and that percentage only increasing), will $100K pay for 100 L2s (and their ongoing maintenance?) That would be a dream. But, let's be honest, how many hotel owners are going to make that sort of investment. They will be more likely to advertise their proximity to L3 charging stations, than offer enough L2s for all their customers.

Currently, I live in an apartment and people want and L2 to be put into our outdoor parking lot so people can charge at home. I just don't understand how that's going to work. Overnight, I'd get a full charge in summer, so would 1. have to leave my car outside overnight and 2. only be able to charge fully once a week if there are more than 7 EV owners in my building with 450 apartments. We can stretch that to 14 if half the EV owners are WFH or retired so can charge in the daytime. But in the winter, when our range drops and charging also slows in the cold, charging just once a week won't be enough.

I guess by the time we get to 2035 the L2 chargers will all have the ability for the property owner to do something like have a reservation system and/or free coupon codes good for a couple of hours and/or idle penalties, etc. This way those that really need to charge can do it and lots of people get some ~slowish charging. L3 charging will mostly be paid by the customer.

(I'm currently on a long trip and almost half the charging has been free at hotels. Charging now at my 5th hotel...3 Tesla destination chargers, one J1772, and one 120v)

 

[cpa]

I guess by the time we get to 2035 the L2 chargers will all have the ability for the property owner to do something like have a reservation system and/or free coupon codes good for a couple of hours and/or idle penalties, etc. This way those that really need to charge can do it and lots of people get some ~slowish charging. L3 charging will mostly be paid by the customer.

(I'm currently on a long trip and almost half the charging has been free at hotels. Charging now at my 5th hotel...3 Tesla destination chargers, one J1772, and one 120v)

I think your idea has some merit. Motels are going to have to work out the cost/benefit to them for installing EV charging stations. L2 is generally sufficient for overnight charging to near 100%. As you say, there will need to be some sort of method (like ChargePoint) whereby you key in your code to start charging, and perhaps the first 20kWh are complimentary with the balance at X¢ per kWh. But we will be sleeping for most of our duration, so there should not be idle penalties until check-out time. There should be enough stations to permit an overnight park even though the car is full after a few hours. Are we really going to want to get up and move our car at 2:30AM after we go to sleep a few hours earlier?

Another cheaper possibility would be to have L1 slots throughout the parking lot. Those would be much cheaper to install, and would only push 1.9kW (on 20A service; 1.44kW on 15A), so the cost would be for 14-20 kWh, depending upon how long the customer is plugged in. Probably about the same cost to the property as their complimentary breakfasts.

 

[kpanda17]

Isn’t it amazing that the electrical utilities are missing all of the extra revenue of building out level 2 charging at people’s homes and app integrations
Meaning apps letting people charge other people to use their charging and getting paid a premium over the utility cost

 

[gtae07]

Meaning apps letting people charge other people to use their charging and getting paid a premium over the utility cost

Can you imagine the tax nightmare? It's not worth it for individuals.

 

[SVMike]

But we will be sleeping for most of our duration, so there should not be idle penalties until check-out time. There should be enough stations to permit an overnight park even though the car is full after a few hours. Are we really going to want to get up and move our car at 2:30AM after we go to sleep a few hours earlier?

Easy enough...just don't charge idle fees from around 10pm or midnight until 8am, perhaps
Also be sure to send text message warnings for idle fees.
Also a good idea is to position standby parking spots next to chargers so the next car to charge can move the cable and the cars unlock when complete and/or the owner can unlock remotely.
It is VERY dumb to put several chargers in a row right next to each other so that each charger serves just one parking spot.

 

[danaleighton]

Our Airbnb has 2 Wall Connectors, and 240 wall plugs. We are the only lodging with L2 charging in town. In 20 months, I can count the number of EV guests on one hand. We have it on Plugshare where most found out about it. Also have it in the Airbnb amenities. Tesla won’t let small operators be part of their destination charging program. based on the response, it would not be economically beneficial to install just to attract a handful of guests (we just have them for ourselves anyway). Pecan Carriage House Airbnb | Texarkana, AR | EV Station

 

[henderrj]

.
It is VERY dumb to put several chargers in a row right next to each other so that each charger serves just one parking spot.

For using, yes. For installation, no. I think the best solution is to have it in the middle with parking stalls front and back. That way we achieve the benefits you mentioned as well as the less expensive installation cost.

We've been rode tripping with the Tesla for almost 7 years, almost 200,000 mi. It used to be difficult to find a destination charger, but on the last shorter road trip, 2000 miles total, we only had one hotel that didn't have it. Usually only two spots, only once we're both full. We did stop at one hotel in Memphis that had eight Tesla chargers and I think for j-17 72. In the morning when we left the j1772s were all attached to Teslas with an adapter. Only a single instance, but I think that's pretty much the norm now. (Busy hotel on a Friday night)

 

[SVMike]

For using, yes. For installation, no.

Penny wise, pound foolish of course. The cost of the extra 10 feet of copper wire isn't much. Needing to add more chargers, in the future, because everyone finds it convenient to plug in for the whole night will cost more.
We just need a few hotel execs to be EV drivers to get this fixed.

 

[kpanda17]

Yes seek out EV hotels
Call ahead to confirm no issues
Last hotel one two and one broken

 

[Feathermerchan]

Very first long trip, we started looking for a hotel while still about 2 hours out from our planned stop. The data block on the car's nav screen for the LaQuinta in Cookeville Tenn. showed to have destination charging. I called the hotel using the handset icon on the data block and confirmed that we could use it. Then pulled in, plugged in and left the next morning fully charged and conditioned.
Recent trip to Brenham Tx, we called a few days ahead to confirm charging. Nat many Superchargers around so we put in enough charge at the Bucees in Temple so we could return there if necessary. Used the car screen to find that charge level.
Recently traveled to Granbury, Tx and chose an Inn that has destination charging. Worked out great. Not much Supercharging around. Turned out that we did not need to charge anyway because we were near to the town square.
We have also used NEMA 50A outlets in AirBnB houses.

 

[thefrog1394]

I think your idea has some merit. Motels are going to have to work out the cost/benefit to them for installing EV charging stations. L2 is generally sufficient for overnight charging to near 100%. As you say, there will need to be some sort of method (like ChargePoint) whereby you key in your code to start charging, and perhaps the first 20kWh are complimentary with the balance at X¢ per kWh. But we will be sleeping for most of our duration, so there should not be idle penalties until check-out time. There should be enough stations to permit an overnight park even though the car is full after a few hours. Are we really going to want to get up and move our car at 2:30AM after we go to sleep a few hours earlier?

Another cheaper possibility would be to have L1 slots throughout the parking lot. Those would be much cheaper to install, and would only push 1.9kW (on 20A service; 1.44kW on 15A), so the cost would be for 14-20 kWh, depending upon how long the customer is plugged in. Probably about the same cost to the property as their complimentary breakfasts.

My guess is that many hotels will add them and charge a small markup over electric rates to make a few extra bucks while some hotels will include it for free and advertise it as a perk.

Hotel charging is great when its there, but I've kind of stopped looking for it lately. It's hit or miss whether it exists, often is ICEd or taken by another EV or just broken. I'll pick the hotel with the charger when all else is equal, but I certainly won't go out of my way for it.

 

[DelPhonic1]

I think your idea has some merit. Motels are going to have to work out the cost/benefit to them for installing EV charging stations. L2 is generally sufficient for overnight charging to near 100%. As you say, there will need to be some sort of method (like ChargePoint) whereby you key in your code to start charging, and perhaps the first 20kWh are complimentary with the balance at X¢ per kWh. But we will be sleeping for most of our duration, so there should not be idle penalties until check-out time. There should be enough stations to permit an overnight park even though the car is full after a few hours. Are we really going to want to get up and move our car at 2:30AM after we go to sleep a few hours earlier?

Another cheaper possibility would be to have L1 slots throughout the parking lot. Those would be much cheaper to install, and would only push 1.9kW (on 20A service; 1.44kW on 15A), so the cost would be for 14-20 kWh, depending upon how long the customer is plugged in. Probably about the same cost to the property as their complimentary breakfasts.

Level 1 chargers will only excacerbate range anxiety. I believe they hurt the EV effort. Towns and cities would install level 2 chargers thinking people can use them for travel, as well. They’re great if you work in the area. Otherwise unless your an almost useless plug-in hybrid, they are mirages for new EV owners.

 

[Rocky_H]

Level 1 chargers will only excacerbate range anxiety. I believe they hurt the EV effort.

I mostly agree, with one exception. Long term parking lots at airports are based on the idea that the cars will be charging for days, so it's appropriate there.

 

[cpa]

I guess I was not specific enough. For many properties it would be impractical to install L2 charging across vast swaths of their parking structure. But L1 has some benefits.

I do not see how L1 charging would exacerbate range anxiety. The idea of L1 charging is to augment, not replace faster charging methods. I agree that adding 15-20kWh overnight is not all that earth-shattering, but it still is about 50-70 miles of range added overnight. Maybe in ten years this will be trivial but today this additional range is nothing to sneeze at to my way of thinking. When I would work out-of-town several times per year, it was easy to leave home with 85%, drive to my work place 100 miles away, then backtrack 15 miles to a motel that reserved a parking spot for me with L1 access. Plug in overnight back to 65%, commute to work, back to the motel, plug in overnight, go to work, then 100 miles home. I would generally arrive home with about 20%. The nearest Supercharger was 40 miles away in the wrong direction. The two motels in town that had L2 charging charged twice the room rate as I was paying at the L1, and the quality of the properties was identical.

I would think that 90%+ of future EV drivers that will be taking road trips will not be so ignorant as to think that they can charge just as fast on L1 as L2. So, range anxiety I think is a non-starter.

Last, to take Rocky's comment further: Not everyone spends one night at a motel and departs. Some people visit family for a few days and stay at motels. Others have business to transact (like me) and stay a couple of days. And others still might avail themselves of local attractions that might only entail 15-20 miles of driving per day. So, a three-night stay might wind up with 30 or more hours plugged in at 1.4kW, easily adding 42 or more kWh for the return trip on departure day.

 

[AudreyHTX1]

I’m picky about hotels, so no, I don’t use destination chargers to select a hotel on a long road trip. I prefer a hotel not far from a supercharger so that I can either charge before checking in, or charge first thing in the morning.

I don’t count on hotel destination chargers because of a) reliability/being in working order and b) parking accessibility. The latter can be a real challenge. I did charge a couple of hours at a hotel one night, and then parked away a bit from the charger intending to return early the next morning to finish. When I went early someone coming in late had parked a trailer in a way that the charging spot was no longer accessible even though there was a cone in the parking spot. Fortunately at the other end of the parking lot someone who was plugged in earlier had released that charger.

It did save me a visit to a supercharger but I would never feel comfortable counting on this. The hotel was fairly empty late afternoon, but by 9pm it was jam packed and obviously even more people arriving overnight.

I read PlugShare occasionally and hotel destination chargers are horribly abused and often not working. And that doesn’t even take into account access.

 

[AudreyHTX1]

I participated in a conference at JW Mariott in Austin yesterday and one of the main topics on the agenda was EV charging in general, not Tesla charging. Most people I talked to had a Tesla. I think we were around 1000 delegates and the hotel had all of two (2) Tesla connectors. Hilarious when you think about it.

OMG! This reminds me of April at South Padre Island for the first SpaceX orbital launch attempt where even superchargers were inaccessible, because everywhere including outgoing routes were absolutely mobbed by Teslas. Fortunately our hotel had a 50A outlet I was able to use. Crazy times!

 

[AudreyHTX1]

Are we talking about level 3, DC 250kwh charging at hotels?
That would be a dream, but a few questions:

Will this also serve non hotel guests?
Is this necessary as most hotel stays will charge overnight? Wouldn’t level 2 be more in alignment with intent.

I can see a supercharger setup at a hotel with public access at 250kw being a quick hit for drivers, meaning just like non hotel Tesla locations. Also these hotels could capture new revenue selling food as well, win win.

Several hotels host Tesla superchargers. These appear in the navigation just like any other supercharger and are open to the public. These certainly can be convenient to a road trip. I’ve used many supercharger locations with hotel, but only stayed at one of these overnight as the timing worked out. It usually doesn’t, but in many cases there was a supercharger nearby.

 

[SVMike]

I just returned from a 3650 mile road trip. I charged at 20 Superchargers, but I also charged at 5 hotel destination chargers and one hotel with 120v outlets. About 45% of my charging was free at hotels. Most were Marriotts (Courtyard, Residence Inn, Fairfield, etc.)

 

[cwerdna]

No. My reasons are at What app do you use to find hotels with charging?.

I haven't had time for many EV road trips but so far , I've not sought one out when I've had an EV w/me. Since the hotel never said it had any, they met my expectations.

And, there’s a report at Finding hotel/motels with ev charging stations of an insane $10 per hour for level 2 charging.

CT4000: 30A Dual Port Level 2 EV Charger | ChargePoint is typical for public and workplace L2 (my work has dozens of these). They're only 30 amp max and at 208 volts (common for US commercial power), the best you get out of them is 30 amps * 208 volts = 6240 watts = 6.24 kW. If they are on a 240 volt feed, you'd get 7200 watts = 7.2 kW. So, for each hour, 7.2 kWh at best comes out of each plug, costing you $10. That's really horrible pricing for 7.2 kWh.