Can’t post the article because it is behind a paywall, but those of you who subscribe to the Washington Post will be interested in an article they just posted that we are running out of electric power and the grid can’t keep up with added renewables. If anyone can legally post the article, it would make for an interesting discussion topic on TMC.
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Washington Post Article - We are running out of energy
- Thread starter JMGNC
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Tam
Well-Known Member
Of course we would run out of energy if we do nothing.
That has been a fear in the past: running out of steam, whale oil, fossil oil, and now electricity.
Humans keep consuming a huge amount of energy and we should have ran out a long time ago but we never did because we keep adapting and find ways to get more energy.
Today EVs, data centers, crypto mining, A.I. computing growth.. can easily deplete our current energy supply. However, solar panels and battery storage has replaced some petroleum-based generators in some islands so it could scale up to meet the demand.
There are many other ways to get and store energy: wind, waves, tides...
The issue is utility companies try to restrict residential energy producers from sizing to various fees. So, yes, if utility companies keep penalizing residential producers, don't be surprised if there's an energy crisis.
Reports filed this year with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission show grid planners expect nationwide electricity demand to grow 4.7 % over the next five years — while 2022 estimates called for just 2.6% growth. Peak demand is expected to grow 38 GW over the next five years.Dec 13, 2023
Doesn't look that bad to me
wasn't behind a paywall for me. They are saying demand doubles driven largely by Data Centers. What I don't get is that there is a "9 year growth" chart, but it starts in 2017 and ends in 2023 and shows demand in 2023 double that of 2022. I don't think they have the numbers correct. Suspicious
URL still takes me to a paywall. But I get the idea from your read of it. I'd heard something related about how bit coin mining was using so much data center capacity. I still don't understand currency mining but leave for another forum topic.
I dont have the numbers in front of me, but my guess is that ALL EV charging today is less than the energy going into crypto currency mining.
In a strange way, we are benefitting from the difficulty of making high energy density batteries. Its forced EV makers to focus on efficiency (e.g. lower drag, mechanical optimization) so that EVs are far more energy efficient than if we had higher density batteries.
Thanks so much for posting the article. A few comments from my POV. Utilities continue to limit the size of home solar installs so that homeowners don't overuse net metering. The utilities see this as a financial loser. And they are eliminating net metering wherever they can. The blame is mainly put on new data center requirements due to AI and bit coin mining. They could require that any new data center be powered by renewables as many already are. It takes more land to do this but data centers can be in remote areas. drtimhill has it right that EV's are efficient by design. Appreciate everyone's comments.
what did you think about that 9 year growth graph that ends in 2023? Did not make sense to me as I know 2023 did not double from 2022
The chart was showing requests for new energy. 2023 was double the demand average for the previous 6 years. It doesn't mean that much energy was used and it is wasn't a running total. It seems totally kosher to me.
So we don't really manufacture that many new things in the US. And the economy is gradually (and sometimes not gradually) shifting to information/entertainment as a greater percentage of resources than things. Hence, the primary use for new industrial energy is in data centers. That isn't surprising to anyone. These things need energy. I know in my area, they generally have accompanying solar farms. Microsoft is a big builder of data centers and has made commitments to be carbon free so I am sure they try to have solar sited nearby.
But I also bet they request energy from the local utility. Even if they plan on being self-reliant - maybe eventually - you are still going to put in a request for said energy. A problem for sure but maybe just one of planning and communication.
I don't think this crypto for the most part. It is planning for increased AI. How can AI run the world without processing power?
The other take home from the article is that access to power in a locale is important. Duh. You can look at the map of new chip and EV plants near me - they are all pretty close to one another and part of that is access to power. Part of it is lithium and part of it is workforce and tax incentives. But they are calling central NC the "battery belt" - and it is mostly Chatham county. Sharon Harris is a nuclear power plant at the border of Wake county and Chatham and Wake is probably too full and doesn't have the water supplies. A lake was made many years ago for the nuclear power plant and I suspect it is way more than they need since it was planned for 4 reactors and only 1 ever got built.
So we don't really manufacture that many new things in the US. And the economy is gradually (and sometimes not gradually) shifting to information/entertainment as a greater percentage of resources than things. Hence, the primary use for new industrial energy is in data centers. That isn't surprising to anyone. These things need energy. I know in my area, they generally have accompanying solar farms. Microsoft is a big builder of data centers and has made commitments to be carbon free so I am sure they try to have solar sited nearby.
But I also bet they request energy from the local utility. Even if they plan on being self-reliant - maybe eventually - you are still going to put in a request for said energy. A problem for sure but maybe just one of planning and communication.
I don't think this crypto for the most part. It is planning for increased AI. How can AI run the world without processing power?
The other take home from the article is that access to power in a locale is important. Duh. You can look at the map of new chip and EV plants near me - they are all pretty close to one another and part of that is access to power. Part of it is lithium and part of it is workforce and tax incentives. But they are calling central NC the "battery belt" - and it is mostly Chatham county. Sharon Harris is a nuclear power plant at the border of Wake county and Chatham and Wake is probably too full and doesn't have the water supplies. A lake was made many years ago for the nuclear power plant and I suspect it is way more than they need since it was planned for 4 reactors and only 1 ever got built.
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