Updating early model middle row seats to Fold-Flats (both 7-seat configs)

[OK-S]

Hi Good People,

We are about to purchase a 2016 MX in a 7-seat configuration (which is what we want) but would prefer the newer (post-2017) fold-flat design - which we can't find now at a good price. Would it be a straightforward swap if we purchase used or new later-model seats? Are the mounting and wiring essentially the same? Has any of you done it or looked into it? Thank you in advance!

 

[mxnym]

The early seats are on large centered pedestals and move independently while the bench seats are mounted in more traditional ways. Nothing about the pedestals is similar to the later seats. I'm not saying it's even possible, but if it were, at the very least, the flooring would need changed (I mean the carpet and the floor under it, and I couldn't tell you whether any mounting points would be the same) and the vehicle software config would need changed (which means finding someone to hack it or convincing Tesla to make potentially "unsupported" modifications). It is also feasible that some harnesses would need to be changed as well since the seats do completely different things and the latches for the folding and sliding functions in the bench are actuated electronically in spite of the fact that the adjustments have to be done manually. That having been said, it sounds like you might be making some assumptions about the folding 7 seat config. so I wouldn't be sure you want that to begin with (you could, but you ought to be sure first). You might do a bit of reading on that vs 5 & 6. there is a good long thread about that. For instance, depending on why you think you want a 7 seater, any of these threads might provide some useful information for you to aid in that decision:

5 and 7 seater middle row

hey guys, Literally been on the verge of ordering myself a MX 7 seater when I get told that the new ones, the middle row aren’t electric and can’t be controlled from the console etc. The show room that’s local doesn’t have any 7 seaters and supposedly no other show rooms in the UK does...

teslamotorsclub.com

Is a 7-seater with the 3rd row folded down the same as a 5-seater?

I wonder whether a 7-seater with the 3rd row folded down is the same as a 5-seater. If it is the case, does that mean a 7-seater is a better choice?

teslamotorsclub.com

Family of 5: 6 Seats or 7 Seats

Hi everyone, I test drove a MY over the weekend and it felt to small and cramped, my family likes the MX because of the FWD so I just want to know if y'all recommend a 6 seat or 7 seat interior. We currently have a Honda Odyssey but we rarely use the third row. Thanks

teslamotorsclub.com

Middle row seats trigger front seats to move

Anyone else have the issue of anytime they move the middle row seats, the corresponding front seat moves? On either the driver side or the passenger side, when I slightly adjust the location of the middle row seat it moves the front row seat in front if it. This has become especially annoying...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[OK-S]

The early seats are on large centered pedestals and move independently while the bench seats are mounted in more traditional ways. Nothing about the pedestals is similar to the later seats. I'm not saying it's even possible, but if it were, at the very least, the flooring would need changed (I mean the carpet and the floor under it, and I couldn't tell you whether any mounting points would be the same) and the vehicle software config would need changed (which means finding someone to hack it or convincing Tesla to make potentially "unsupported" modifications). It is also feasible that some harnesses would need to be changed as well since the seats do completely different things and the latches for the folding and sliding functions in the bench are actuated electronically in spite of the fact that the adjustments have to be done manually. That having been said, it sounds like you might be making some assumptions about the folding 7 seat config. so I wouldn't be sure you want that to begin with (you could, but you ought to be sure first). You might do a bit of reading on that vs 5 & 6. there is a good long thread about that. For instance, depending on why you think you want a 7 seater, any of these threads might provide some useful information for you to aid in that decision:

5 and 7 seater middle row

hey guys, Literally been on the verge of ordering myself a MX 7 seater when I get told that the new ones, the middle row aren’t electric and can’t be controlled from the console etc. The show room that’s local doesn’t have any 7 seaters and supposedly no other show rooms in the UK does...

teslamotorsclub.com

Is a 7-seater with the 3rd row folded down the same as a 5-seater?

I wonder whether a 7-seater with the 3rd row folded down is the same as a 5-seater. If it is the case, does that mean a 7-seater is a better choice?

teslamotorsclub.com

Family of 5: 6 Seats or 7 Seats

Hi everyone, I test drove a MY over the weekend and it felt to small and cramped, my family likes the MX because of the FWD so I just want to know if y'all recommend a 6 seat or 7 seat interior. We currently have a Honda Odyssey but we rarely use the third row. Thanks

teslamotorsclub.com

Middle row seats trigger front seats to move

Anyone else have the issue of anytime they move the middle row seats, the corresponding front seat moves? On either the driver side or the passenger side, when I slightly adjust the location of the middle row seat it moves the front row seat in front if it. This has become especially annoying...

teslamotorsclub.com

Thank you for your detailed reply and useful links! I think the first issue you highlighted is that to have the folding seats they are a bench seat. I had not considered the loss of independent bucket seats, easier 3rd-row access or leg room. Perhaps the occasional need for a flat cargo space can’t beat those advantages! Cheers!

 

[geordi]

Thinking about the same kind of purchase but on this side of the globe.... Has anyone looked under the seat itself and seen how it attaches to said pedestal?

I know Tesla is just amazing at reinventing the wheel, but there has to be a way of the actual seat surface attaching to the support system, and the associated seat for the folding ones may have similar attachments to their support structure. It's not the pedestal we want to change, so much as the leather-covered techno-throne above it.

 

[geordi]

Doing some pre-purchase research to see if this is even something I want to pursue.... What I have found so far: The under-floor setup of the folding-and-not-sliding seats appears to be bolted down using a very suspicious looking rail, as seen in the disassembly video at 6:50 here:

So that doesn't answer the question about whether we can retain the pedestals or not... BUT it does seem like the mounting points in the floor are still the same - which would make sense b/c car manufacturers are cheap. They will never reinvent something if they can reuse it from previous designs.

While sitting at a supercharger yesterday I had an opportunity to speak with an X owner who has a late-2017 (possibly 2018) 7 seat with the folding second row. The seats appear to be FULLY manual and mechanical, rather than electronic - which I'm OK with - but are bolted to the floor exactly as shown in the video. They were accommodating to the weird person and let me take a picture of the underside of the seat, and what I found: The seat is bolted to the foot in a very obvious and easily-accessible way.... So MAYBE there is a way to transfer just the seat to the top of the pedestal, and keep the pedestal (with the movement would be nice, but not a requirement for me)

I will be looking at a 2023 in a day or two just as a comparison - that 2023 is the 6 seat version though. The older 2016, I won't see until at least the early part of next week. I DO think this is possible - maybe with a simple solution of just leaving the module under the carpet and hidden in the styrofoam blocks, and if there IS an electronic annoyance to deal with, possibly finding the microswitch in the seat and setting up a bypass for that to fool the computer into thinking the seat is always up (or always latched down) which is the likely position anyway.

 

[mxnym]

The seats appear to be FULLY manual and mechanical, rather than electronic - which I'm OK with.

Yes, they *appear* to be, but looks can be deceiving, or perhaps you were looking at a 5 seater? The 7 seat bench is different than the 5 seat bench. It has exit buttons in the shoulders under the upholstery. These cause the seats to fold to about a 45 degree angle and briefly be unlatched so that you can push them forward manually (or if you're parked facing down a steep enough hill, they can be gravity driven). If you don't push them out of their normal position in that brief period, the seats then proceed to fold flat. These folding actions are also gravity assisted/manual, but the release is electrical. There is also a recline lever on each outboard side and a sliding lever under each side. I believe I have had previous experience that confirms at least one of these levers (on each side) also only triggers electrical actuation for the manual mechanical movements in spite of looking like a nice old-fashioned physical release, but I can't find any documentation to confirm that at the moment. That having been said, one example I have NOT experienced that occurs multiple times in this thread is the seats getting stuck in the 45 degree forward position and requiring service to fix. When this occurs, the recline lever cannot release them, and it's possible they can no longer be slid with the other lever, either, but I suppose even both of those things occurring wouldn't guarantee that either lever isn't fully mechanically operable outside of that situation.

 

[geordi]

I don't know what years you might be describing - the one I looked at was a 2018, and the lever on the outside was definitely a mechanical release. This was a 7 seater.

There was no latch anywhere other than fully upright and no tension in the action of the back of the seat, and no buttons on the shoulder. It looked like the seats from a minivan.

 

[mxnym]

I don't know what years you might be describing - the one I looked at was a 2018, and the lever on the outside was definitely a mechanical release. This was a 7 seater.

There was no latch anywhere other than fully upright and no tension in the action of the back of the seat, and no buttons on the shoulder. It looked like the seats from a minivan.

I can assure you that you are almost certainly wrong (you would only be right if there was a misbuild or someone put a 5-seat bench in a 7-seat vehicle, assuming they even mate the same). As for the 7-seat middle bench, yes, the recline and slide levers look and move exactly like fully mechanical ones in minivans and SUVs, no that doesn't mean they are free from electromechanical involvement. Separately, apparently you didn't see the button on the back of the seat, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there (unless you only imagined the existence of a third row, in which case it wasn't on the 5 seater you were looking at). Here is a link to the relevant page of the online manual:

Model X Owner's Manual | Tesla

Learn how to use and customize the front and rear seats in your vehicle.

www.tesla.com

That particular link will bring up the 2021+ manual, scroll down to "Accessing Third Row Seats (if equipped)" to see the location of the button that still exists in the palladium models. If my 2017 has a button on the back and a 2021+ has a button on the back, the odds of a 2018 NOT having a button on the back are practically nil. As I previously mentioned, that particular button is covered by upholstery (doesn't appear to be in the picture in the linked manual, but was pre-2021+), so you won't necessarily see it unless you are specifically looking for it and know what to look for. The only indication it is there is an embossed marking in said upholstery.

 

[geordi]

Ok - I have now purchased both a 2016 model X 7-seater, and a set of folding 2nd row seats ALSO from a 7-seat (I think it was 2020) model.

Yes the folding seats are manual actuation to both slide and fold - b/c both functions were done with the seats on the floor of the garage where I got them, and nowhere near a vehicle. Now there is a release button on the upper corner for that third row entry, but two things: I don't care, I'm not likely to EVER have need of third row seats, and as long as they fold manually... My needs are met. Now it is just a matter of keeping the computer happy.

Has anyone ever tried redeploying the software with the different seats installed? It may not work, but then again.... It might if the module communicates with the rest of the car and identifies itself. I may give that a try just for giggles once I get the others out. Otherwise the plan is to just leave the module under the floor so the X thinks the originals are still there and I've just never needed to adjust them.

 

[mxnym]

Interesting that those are fully mechanical but can be disabled by the electrical function. To be clear, every "seat stuck halfway folded" issue involves the recline lever not working, and the slide lever is actually disconnected so the seats can slide further forward when you use the exit button, but perhaps not in a way that can leave it stuck not working. If you will never need the third row seats and don't want to risk having the seats stuck half folded outside of warranty, you could just not hook up that electrical button, because there are likely scenarios where it will be pressed on accident (showing off the car, reaching over the seats, etc.).

I think there are a few people who can hack the config of a Tesla, but I don't know who they are, if it has to be rooted, or anything like that. Regarding keeping the computer happy, I don't know if just leaving the module (or leaving the button I'm talking about unpowered, for that matter) will work without errors unless you connect some things to trick them (and no idea what things those would be). Both the pedestal seats and folding bench have sensors which indicate at least occupancy (passenger with no seatbelt, for instance) and latching (never seen a solid explanation why, but when pedestal seats are all the way forward, there is an IC warning about them not being latched), so it seems unlikely you'll luck out and have all of these safety sensors be normally open.

 

[geordi]

There are numerous examples I have found of people extracting the second row and not installing anything - presumably they have either left the module under the floor or the entire seat harness as well. Operating with a large number of errors doesn't amuse me, and I can't believe all these people setting up for camping or carting dogs or wheelchairs or whatever are running around with chimes and errors either.

The plan right now b/c of that latching thing, is that I have to move the seat to get to the rear bolts, once they are free I will move them back to the latched position so the computer is happy, and then power down and remove everything but the black module. Power back up and see what errors present. It would be interesting to see if the newer seats match as far as the plugs - I AM thinking to connect the airbags no matter what, b/c disabling that is a bad idea and if you need those... You *need* those.

Gonna be an interesting day.

 

[geordi]

OK, seats are in. There were some issues with lining up the bolt holes, it would seem that the rails of the pedestals for 2016 sit slightly wider (and the chairs too) than the 60/40 bench seat. Got one seat rail to line up front and back, but then the other one didn't have all the attachment points. So I got creative (destructive) and drilled the aluminum plate that they sit on and tapped the holes for the bolts. I may swap them out for riv-nuts at some point but this is sufficient for now.

Electronics... Before powering down for the removal I had set the power seats at their furthest-back position. I plugged everything in on the new chairs, using the "black" plugs on both sides, the grey and then the yellow (airbag). Not sure yet what is in the grey, I hope it is the seat restraint system. Airbag is obvious. No errors onscreen, in service mode there were two "mismatch, software update needed" codes.

Forced a reload of the software. When it came back up, everything appeared OK... But when put in gear, there was immediately an error about the two outside seats being unlatched. Annoying. Tried pressing the seat motion buttons (not expecting anything to move), and the seats made a beeping type noise which was odd, but nothing moved. The shoulder release buttons do nothing at all which is OK.... Then for reasons I don't understand, the passenger 40% seat back moved on it's own and is now stuck halfway. I'm going to unzip it tomorrow and *will* make it functional (manually) again, and disable that motor. I don't need it moving on its own!

If there isn't a way to satisfy the occupant module (there's nobody in the seat) then I may have to switch back to the other module if another software reset doesn't solve the error.

 

[geordi]

I FOUND THE GLITCH.

So there are at least two of these "cable junction" plastic boxes with zipties wrapped around them as extra-special security to keep you out of them. The motor pulls on one side and the handle pulls on the other, for the cable attached to the box by the front of the chair.

The box by the back of the chair, connected to the cable that runs parallel to the motor body under the seat bottom - THAT'S THE PROBLEM. I disabled the motors on my chairs b/c I don't need them running, but now I know where the issue is. That short cable needs to pull tension on the other two cables, which pulls down on the latch that holds the seat in the half-folded position. WHY this is there, I have no idea. There's no reason to lock the seat there.

My solution right now is that I have a pair of vice-grips holding the little block in that box toward the motor. I will try to post pictures later as I'm reassembling the seat - I pulled apart way more than I needed to, to figure this out. The solution long-term could be as simple as drilling a screw through the cover of the box to permanently hold those cables against the spring tension (it isn't much). That's probably what I'm going to do on this seat, since I can't seem to get ALL the tension released from the handle, but it functions perfectly again. There is a separate microswitch to announce when the seat is up, so hopefully there won't be any errors when I plug it back in. That will be the next challenge if it does. I didn't have any errors on the first drive after reloading the software, my problems started after I (stupidly) tried looking at the seat screen and touching buttons there. Not gonna do that again!

 

[mxnym]

Glad you were able to straighten that out. Since you indicate you don't know, the reason it locks the seat at that angle is for 3rd row step in/out access. The seat back locks there and the base releases from whatever holds it in place to slide freely. You then slide it forward (via pressure against the seatback) to the end of it's travel (much further than you can move it with the front lever). After getting passengers in/out, you slide it back (again, via pressure against the seatback [shoulder]); the seatback position is released after the base latches back into whatever holds it in place. Under normal conditions, if the electronic button is pressed and the seat latches at that angle but isn't slid, it will release a couple seconds later and drop into the folded position.

 

[geordi]

So that might be the logic, but as far as the performance.... Not so much. I've looked at the connector pinouts and all of them show the same between the monopost seats and the sliding 60/40. At least on the car side, there's no difference, so it must be handled within CAN bus instructions to the module in the seat itself. I heard it / saw it toss the back forward, but it didn't release the bottom slides at all. Other than room to clear legs over the folded chair, it seems easier to move around a completely folded seat. No matter though - Those 3rd row are unlikely to EVER be moved from the folded position, and if that is going to somehow permanently lock them in any position without the original seats in place.... NOPE. Not unfolding them ever. I'd rather unbolt them entirely if that was the situation.

The outer seats still register as "occupied but unlatched" right now, so I'm doing another full software reinstall to see if that clears that up. There aren't any occupant restraint errors or airbag errors with the grey and yellow plugs connected, so if this doesn't clear up the seat-unlatched error.... The next idea is to (on the seat side of the car harness) find and put a connector in the specific wire for the occupant sensor so that I can cut that connection manually. The other idea is to try and locate which microswitch might be registering "latched" or not.... BUT I feel like that's probably more a function it is looking for in the CAN bus from the other seat module.

 

[geordi]

Reloading the software didn't cure it, it still thinks the outside two seats are occupied and unlatched. Since it is NOT complaining about the seatbelt use though, it may be simpler to figure out where the latching signal should be delivered and set that.

I've got to go back through the wiring diagrams and see, b/c that one SHOULD be as simple as a microswitch, hopefully it is on the same pins as the monopost.

Note - it does this whether the seats are up OR down.

 

[mxnym]

So that might be the logic, but as far as the performance.... Not so much.

I mean, I described how mine works from the factory. It not performing that way in your case likely has to do with configuration (the software still thinking you have pedestal seats).

No matter though - Those 3rd row are unlikely to EVER be moved from the folded position, and if that is going to somehow permanently lock them in any position without the original seats in place.... NOPE. Not unfolding them ever. I'd rather unbolt them entirely if that was the situation.

Not sure what you mean about the 3rd row seats, but to be sure (in case I caused an inaccurate impression), their behavior is NOT linked to the 2nd row in any way. Mine got stuck in the closed position early on and the service center told me it's because the cable that actuates the release stretched, so they tightened it. That hasn't recurred. They are to the point of sticking in the closed position again now, but I don't think it's for the same reason, and they definitely haven't stuck in the open position regardless. As such, I think a failure specific to the third row is the only scenario that would lead to one of those seats being stuck open.

 

[Bestla]

Reloading the software didn't cure it, it still thinks the outside two seats are occupied and unlatched. Since it is NOT complaining about the seatbelt use though, it may be simpler to figure out where the latching signal should be delivered and set that.


How'd it go?

 

[geordi]

Getting back to this thread after a family trip, some discoveries.

The seat position I chose for bolting it down wasn't *quite* correct, the 60 side needs to be further inboard toward the center of the car (and probably move the 40 a little outboard to compensate) b/c when you try to recline the back, the side door hits it and it won't close. This is less of an issue b/c I don't normally have passengers, so I'll only deal with this (and tapping new holes in the floor) if and when I have to remove the seats again.

On the software side - It still complains about "unlatched seats" every single time you change gear direction. It bings when there is someone IN the seats, so the occupant classifier is working / connected. If this is how it will behave when the seats are folded, that's annoying as that's how I drive most of the time anyway. I found the microswitches in the slide rails and those are now disabled (taped) in the "latched" position - no change in performance.

The car DID complete a software update, so there is no need to have the modules from the old seats in the car - if I can sort out the coding issue / find the other microswitches and deal with them, there may yet be a solution to quiet the system down. I don't expect much result, but there is a visit from mobile service in the near future to fix my streaming login (it's stupid that this gets erased when you reset the car!) so MAYBE if he's feeling friendly, the seat coding can be updated. Otherwise I'll just keep poking at the seat wiring like a deranged ape.

 

[mxnym]

If this is how it will behave when the seats are folded, that's annoying as that's how I drive most of the time anyway.

Sorry to report that sounds normal There are threads complaining about this, but I don't recall anyone ever attempting to resolve it, so maybe you'll find a way.