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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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This is bizarre. Certainly wasn't expecting a buying opportunity prior to 4Q earnings, but I guess I'll go all in with my last few k. Optimal timing for options purchasing....end of this week? I have a feeling we'll snap back to $340 right after the new year when most folks are back to paying attention.

There have to be a *sugar* ton of buy orders sitting at $300.
 
Yes and the story shorts are excited about. I’m a bit flummoxed myself. I’ve got mental ping pong, trying to take in bullish and bearish thoughts.

Interest seems high in China and Europe, but do they just have high interest and early orders, or is demand deep enough to fill the order queue through mid year. Tesla does have more overtime burst and then slow down flexibility then the unionized producers. Could they be producing much higher then Troy predicts and getting ready to ship 3000 a week to China and 3000 a week to Europe, or is China weaker than expected? Have US/China relations poisoned the well so bad to hurt Tesla sales? Could this just be typical bear attack on low volume day pushing out weak long’s and levered long’s? Is this the perfect time to jump in, or wait until New Year’s Eve, which will be another low volume day, easily manipulated and buy some weekly calls next Monday around 9:30 in the mmd?
Tesla and TSLA is a tale of two cities, always the best of times and the worst of times. Depending on where you stand and where you look, it’s the best or worst and the cup it overfloweth or it’s about to shatter on the floor, cause Elon’s been drinking the sacramental.

Also thinking if they go hard core on production of model 3 now, some staff can possibly move to Lathrop later this year for Semi production, I say optimistically.

Anyhow, sorry for anyone leveraged. We were all fairly giddy at 360-370 and should be more so at 320 while the stock is on sale, but we are also subject to perceptions and macros and macro is either a glass half empty, cracked or possibly falling to the floor and impending doom. The fear of a trade war, early impact of the trade skirmish, modest fed rate hikes and effective reduction of money supply be QE2 liquidity reduction (seldom referenced but possibly the silent killer) are all shadows on the wall with everyone waiting for clarity.
All I know for sure is I was a fool for buying a couple of calls for next Friday last week. Go deep time or very short time and have a plan. I’ve been acquiring stock only most of the year and avoiding options. Glad I sold FB and AAPL and wish I had money to buy more stock here. Options are subject to all the above and it’s beyond me who’s going to win the next few points of this ping pong match, even though I believe TSLA will win big in the long run.

Long term thoughts:
Model 3 at 5000 a week is profitable and getting more profitable every day.
Tesla Energy is finally ramping and will be delivering over a billion a quarter soon, if not Q1.
The Semi should start to see some limited production and Lathrop seems like the only production option. Is radio silence a good thing, I think so, as they are still doing demos to customers as if their getting ready to deliver.
Model S/X are due for a battery refresh. Going to a 3 based battery pack will improve margins and performance and sales.
USA price reductions of 2% for SX and 1000 for the 3 are enough to keep sales going in the USA while they catch up overseas.
The Model Y unveil. May be deferred until later in the year, closer to production and will have a higher deposit. Probably 2500, but production will start more quickly. Possibly on the 3 line. With GF2, they can lower Model 3 production in Fremont and focus on more Y in 2020.
The Roadster is also coming up soon. Huge margins and can be assembled in a tent. I’d guess material science heavy developments as well.
The black swan in the room is macroeconomics and politics. Odds of a Putin strike in Ukraine while Mattis and Kelly are out and trump is acting defense secretary, chief of staff and Twitter and chief trade negotiator is high. N Korea could do a nuke test, or some other provocation the week before a Ukraine invasion and Turkey takes out the Kurds. It’s almost like there is a starting gun ready to go off. Dang, even my long term view is conflicted!

Why are you giving China demand even a moment’s thought. Makes less than zero sense. Why? Because Gigafactory 3. You can’t honestly believe there’s an issue with China demand if Tesla is building a factory there. Can you?
 
This is bizarre. Certainly wasn't expecting a buying opportunity prior to 4Q earnings, but I guess I'll go all in with my last few k. Optimal timing for options purchasing....end of this week? I have a feeling we'll snap back to $340 right after the new year when most folks are back to paying attention.

There have to be a *sugar* ton of buy orders sitting at $300.
I’m not touching options again until $250. It’s inevitable at this point. Every little rally will be sold/shorted. We need big news
 
Not sure but the Bloomberg tracker (what all the news lines use) is down around 4100 per week and dropping. Their 4th quarter count hasn’t moved in 5 days and indicates there will be less production than last quarter. There is no way that’s not intentional.
Bloomberg is not manipulating the Model 3 Tracker.

EDIT:
Also, the weekly rate has always been widely misinterpreted. It's not really a reflection of factory production (how could it be?), rather the rate at which the model's quarterly estimate is changing as a function of the inputs.
 
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The China pricing will be better understood after quarterly numbers are announced and Q1 targets announced. I’ve been trying to think this through and I believe the pricing may be needed to use the newly doubled battery production. I’m sure Elon has to twist arms at Panasonic to get the new lines running and those three new lines are doubling cell production. They seemed to be rate limited around 4500 cars in q4, so now they apparently should have batteries for 9000 cars, or a much higher level of Energy and 7000 cars a week. Troy and Bloomberg are both showing ~4000 weekly, but this is based on delivery reports and new VINs. We know reporting is declining and that Tesla increased inventory to regional centers for end of year sales. Reporting declines happens with more buys by non fans enter the market. The inventory thing obviously increased nonreporting VINs.
Curious if any of our shipping trackers are aware of any early shipments overseas? I’m guessing Tesla intends to make over 70,000 cars in Q1 and deliveries will be about 5000 higher than Troy is showing.
 
Volume is pretty high for a half day, don’t know why people are saying it’s low volume manipulation. People/institutions selling their shares to buy at $250 before earnings isn’t manipulation, it’s pretty smart. Obvious pattern in play

Obvious pattern, $250?

I’ll wager you one of these

LogoFit Nick Santa Hat

that we don’t see $250 before earnings (or $250s for that matter)

; )
 
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Troy and Bloomberg are both showing ~4000 weekly, but this is based on delivery reports and new VINs. We know reporting is declining and that Tesla increased inventory to regional centers for end of year sales. Reporting declines happens with more buys by non fans enter the market. The inventory thing obviously increased nonreporting VINs.
Curious if any of our shipping trackers are aware of any early shipments overseas? I’m guessing Tesla intends to make over 70,000 cars in Q1 and deliveries will be about 5000 higher than Troy is showing.

I don't think they would have shipped cars overseas without first registering international VINs. It's possible but unlikely. Also, Model 3 has not received type approval by Europe yet, which needs to happen before they build and ship cars.
 
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We likely see a lot of manipulations until people return to work and numbers are out early in January. Don't be surprised and better disregard the stock movements.

Fundamental are strong and I expect solid results with a joker for a positive surprise.

Manipulation is easy on short volume and thats what happening. No reason to be nervous at all but greedy. Its hard to predict how strong the swings will be but make sure you are never over leveraged and can sit it out.

The key I am waiting for is that the large guys are moving in which is what is required to achieve ATH. For that to happen we need more than production numbers IMO and no one can really say when its happening but that it's happening. Next opportunity is when we have full transparency on Q4 result but even then the we may no see the ATH breakout. Once Q1 is going well and China as well as Europe drive revenue and US keep going it should be hard to find anybody who want to sell or go short.

With that in mind down movement like we see them now do look different.

On the Marco part I do not see anything severely concerning other than a very negative sentiment that is not supported by indicators. Usually negative sentiments driven by politics have shorts legs and go back to normal.

Unfortunately the market is often right and I have seen downturns before where it did not look bad but developed into it. We can't rule that out.

However right now its all very unclear with technicals really depressed and a lot of uncertainty in the market.
NICE summary, that pretty much sums up the state of the state.
 
Yes and the story shorts are excited about. I’m a bit flummoxed myself. I’ve got mental ping pong, trying to take in bullish and bearish thoughts.

Interest seems high in China and Europe, but do they just have high interest and early orders, or is demand deep enough to fill the order queue through mid year. Tesla does have more overtime burst and then slow down flexibility then the unionized producers. Could they be producing much higher then Troy predicts and getting ready to ship 3000 a week to China and 3000 a week to Europe, or is China weaker than expected? Have US/China relations poisoned the well so bad to hurt Tesla sales? Could this just be typical bear attack on low volume day pushing out weak long’s and levered long’s? Is this the perfect time to jump in, or wait until New Year’s Eve, which will be another low volume day, easily manipulated and buy some weekly calls next Monday around 9:30 in the mmd?
Tesla and TSLA is a tale of two cities, always the best of times and the worst of times. Depending on where you stand and where you look, it’s the best or worst and the cup it overfloweth or it’s about to shatter on the floor, cause Elon’s been drinking the sacramental.

Also thinking if they go hard core on production of model 3 now, some staff can possibly move to Lathrop later this year for Semi production, I say optimistically.

Anyhow, sorry for anyone leveraged. We were all fairly giddy at 360-370 and should be more so at 320 while the stock is on sale, but we are also subject to perceptions and macros and macro is either a glass half empty, cracked or possibly falling to the floor and impending doom. The fear of a trade war, early impact of the trade skirmish, modest fed rate hikes and effective reduction of money supply be QE2 liquidity reduction (seldom referenced but possibly the silent killer) are all shadows on the wall with everyone waiting for clarity.
All I know for sure is I was a fool for buying a couple of calls for next Friday last week. Go deep time or very short time and have a plan. I’ve been acquiring stock only most of the year and avoiding options. Glad I sold FB and AAPL and wish I had money to buy more stock here. Options are subject to all the above and it’s beyond me who’s going to win the next few points of this ping pong match, even though I believe TSLA will win big in the long run.

Long term thoughts:
Model 3 at 5000 a week is profitable and getting more profitable every day.
Tesla Energy is finally ramping and will be delivering over a billion a quarter soon, if not Q1.
The Semi should start to see some limited production and Lathrop seems like the only production option. Is radio silence a good thing, I think so, as they are still doing demos to customers as if their getting ready to deliver.
Model S/X are due for a battery refresh. Going to a 3 based battery pack will improve margins and performance and sales.
USA price reductions of 2% for SX and 1000 for the 3 are enough to keep sales going in the USA while they catch up overseas.
The Model Y unveil. May be deferred until later in the year, closer to production and will have a higher deposit. Probably 2500, but production will start more quickly. Possibly on the 3 line. With GF2, they can lower Model 3 production in Fremont and focus on more Y in 2020.
The Roadster is also coming up soon. Huge margins and can be assembled in a tent. I’d guess material science heavy developments as well.
The black swan in the room is macroeconomics and politics. Odds of a Putin strike in Ukraine while Mattis and Kelly are out and trump is acting defense secretary, chief of staff and Twitter and chief trade negotiator is high. N Korea could do a nuke test, or some other provocation the week before a Ukraine invasion and Turkey takes out the Kurds. It’s almost like there is a starting gun ready to go off. Dang, even my long term view is conflicted!


Ever since I started investing in TSLA (2012), I’ve had 5 big worries:

- A major recall of the S would bankrupt the company (didn’t happen)

- The X would be too complicated, become a maintenance nightmare and bankrupt the company (didn’t happen)

- The 3 would be some weirdmobile, resulting in no demand (looked like it might happen, but didn’t)

- The 3 would Osborne sales of the S/X, coupled with delays would bankrupt the company (didn’t happen)

- The 3 would not be ready in time, resulting in 2 idle factories (Fremont and Giga), bankrupting the company (almost happened, no longer a concern)

I just don’t see any more worries at this point, outside of a Fremont earthquake. Worldwide demand for the 3 is easily 7k/week. It’s a big world, and they don’t even advertise... and it’s an awesome product.
 
While Tesla may have another leg down from traders and/or the overall market dropping further, in about 10 days we get Q4 production and in about 6 weeks Q4 earnings (and perhaps some general guidance re 2019).

I think this is about one of the best windows to buy we’ve seen over the past few years. Can understand leaving some dry powder for one more $10-25 drop, but these are very very likely very good prices right here (whether even lower prices are offered in coming days or not). fwiw, I added a nice chunk of trading shares at $299 this morning.

I wouldn’t let the widely broadcast narratives or emotional tones portrayed as obvious “adult” views affect your view of Tesla... they come almost entirely from the people so misreporting about Tesla they’ve had to triple their 2019 eps expectations in a 2-4 month span of time... and they’re 2019 estimates may still need to come up 50%.

Don’t mistake a generational stock disrupting two different trillion dollar industries for a penny stock blowing in the wind. Yes, in the short term, perception of this company can be influenced by those who are not happy with this potential massive disruption, but in the long term the massive disruption, and Tesla’s coinciding outlier scale growth in value, are as near to certainties as investing offers.

Agree that it's a good opportunity (added some calls this morning) but I don't think it's one of the best windows over the "past few years". This is primarily because of the current macroeconomic climate and the uncertainty around Q4 deliveries. If there were ever to be any softness in Model 3 demand, even temporarily, it would be now. I've been saying this a lot over the last month or two, but I think bull expectations are still too high for Q4. There could definitely be a surprise to the upside, but I think we end up around the same level as last quarter (which the street will interpret as a miss). Despite MAYBE low-ish deliveries, I think Q4 earnings and cash flow will still be quite good and Q1 will be sensational if they can get meaningful deliveries to Europe.
 
Obvious pattern, $250?

I’ll wager you one of these

LogoFit Nick Santa Hat

that we don’t see $250 before earnings (or $250s for that matter)

; )
Yeah, I don't really see $250 either, a lot would have to fall apart soon for that to happen. But, stranger things could happen similar to apple, the chinese could start a campaign to boycott buying Tesla's in china. I don't see that happen what with the Chinese encouraging EV adoption and manufacture even from foreign OEM's, but it could happen - and it would be bad.
 
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