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Tesla Vs GM ---> 3rd gen competition on horizon!
- Thread starter Gavars Gints
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Amped_up
Member
Competition is always good: drive down prices, drive up quality. Though GM has its work cut out for them if they want to compete with the pure enjoyment and beauty of the Tesla. Bring it on...
tdelta1000
Active Member
That was some interesting news from Mr. Musk. What struck me the most was the statement about moving production nearer to the consumer to reduce logistic costs.
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Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Benz
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Interesting indeed. Tesla Generation 3 EV being produced in Europe as well. That's very interesting. I haven't heard him say that before. That's really good news for Europe, I guess.
He basically admitted Gen III can't have significant shipping/logistics costs, so the factory needs to be close. And Cali is too expensive so even in the US, they need another factory (or maybe one in Mexico).
1 US factory is going to be a billion +. This isn't 2009 where people are giving away production assets for 5 cents on the dollar. And if Gen III is a success, it's billions more for each new factory. Though they might find some mothballed site in Europe for cheap
Tesla does not have this money, even if Model S ramps to like 60k / yr at > 25% gross margin. They could borrow on a secured basis, issue more bonds, or sell stock. I don't think it's an obstacle. But it really hasn't been part of the conversation from Tesla. Hell, they raised money back when they were flying at treetop level when S production ramped and cash was thin. They will have no problem finding cash for Gen III if S platform proves successful.
Though they might find some mothballed site in Europe for cheap
*cough* SAAB *cough* Opel
and Ford
Lots of empty car plants in Europe.
Looks like you added Ford as an afterthought - did you run out of GM sub brands? :tongue:
Well there is SAAB (still in limbo) and Vauxhall (slowly but surely bleeding to death).
If Elon Musk wants a real good deal, I am sure he could make several EU governments enter an underbidding competition for the best offer.
Ooo. That is a good one. Elon does have a vindictive streak. The government will be looking to recoup some of their loss and the egg on their face.
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I googled "European auto plant closure" and Ford was there.
It seems to me that GM is using Cadillac to compete against Tesla which I have no doubt they can build a 200 or more miles car with good aesthetics (ELR is a good looking car). What I think GM and likewise BMW are lacking is the supercharging network that TM committed to build. Without it, the 200+ miles car will not provide the value customers need. Of course, GM and BMW will not build this network because it will take away their bread and better business, the ICE cars. I wonder if they consider partnership with TM for using their SC network? Can't say never!!!
How would investing in chargers take away from their ICE cars? Also, if it did, would it matter if folks are just moving into another one of their products?
roblab
Active Member
True, can't say never, but past actions predict future actions. GM, BMW, etc. have shown their heart's not in it. They don't believe anyone wants an electric car.
It's like McDonalds saying they *could* build (make) a burrito to compete with Taco Bell. Sure, they could, but they won't.
GM won't get serious about EVs in my lifetime. Gonna take new management, and they don't have any of that.
Doing business the old fashioned way for a hundred years!
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Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
Even if GM did build a compelling 200-mile plus car, I doubt I would buy it. You'd still have to go through the GM dealer/service experience (yuck), and if the law ever changes they'll recall your vehicle and crush it before hopping back on the OPEC tit.
Don't forget the Ford plants in Geelong and Broadmedows Australia that will close in 2016.
They would make a great base for Asian production and the workforce have not gone off to other locations.
moollar
Member
Agree 100%! Australia also has a government that is willing to pay hundreds of millions to car companies to keep car manufacturing in Australia. I'd rather those funds go towards a Tesla factory than keeping Holden (GM) on life support in Australia.
How do we bring this to the attention of senior management at Tesla?
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