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We drive a 6 year old BWM i3. It has thermo-plastic body panels which clean up as new still.

Surely Tesla must have looked at this? I believe the primary problem with the i3 was the time and complication of the carbon-fibre and body panels

Any thoughts on this?

Indeed, @unk45 (BMW Z1?) and I (Saturn) were speculating about this issue after the announcement of the 'unboxed' process (and tease of the compact car) on Mar 3rd. My larger point was that we have to find something to do with all that oil other than burning it... and Mexico/Texas haz lota oil. ;)

Cheers!
 
Please don't confuse rating with capability. The sled pull showed the CT has the capacity to out pull a F350 that is rated at 22,000lbs.

Guess you missed this earlier correcting this misperception?

....not really.

The "prowess" was a test over a very short distance.

The Model X somewhat famously towed a jumbo jet a short distance- that's an EV thing.

It's not relevant to towing capacity in the sense normal on-road trucks are rated for.

If the CT was capable of safe sustained 22k lbs of towing they wouldn't have reduced the listed spec from 14k to 11k at launch.
 
Guess you missed this earlier correcting this misperception?



If the CT was capable of safe sustained 22k lbs of towing they wouldn't have reduced the listed spec from 14k to 11k at launch.
Please describe the physical basis of this for me apart from battery range :). I would think it is more about California, Kansas and others licensing requirements. Simple Guide to RV Driver's Licenses by State [2023]
 
Please describe the physical basis of this for me apart from battery range :). I would think it is more about California, Kansas and others licensing requirements. Simple Guide to RV Driver's Licenses by State [2023]


Uh... what?



The limit in Kansas, for example, is 10k lbs towing cutoff on the rules... so it's still over that limit at 11k rating and thus your explanation makes no actual sense based on the source you provided.

YOUR source said:
Kansas

Noncommercial Class A. GVWR over 26,000 pounds or towing over 10,000 pounds.

Noncommercial Class B. GVWR over 26,000 pounds not towing over 10,000 pounds.

Limit in CA is the same- 10k

YOUR source said:
California

Noncommercial Class A. Travel trailers with a GVWR 10,000 pounds or more or a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 15,000 or more.

Noncommercial Class B. A single recreational vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less and any recreational vehicle between 40 and 45 feet long.

The only other limit is the 26k one... which CT (plus a 14k trailer per original spec) would also be under just as much as with an 11k tow rating


Further- why would they cripple the tow rating because someone MIGHT need an upgraded license in a few specific states to max it out? You don't need the license if your vehicle is RATED to tow that amount- only if you actually do tow that amount.





That's a prototype F-150 EV towing 1 million pounds pulling a train of other F-150s over a short distance (in fact- a pretty similar distance to what the CT pulled that much lighter sled).

That doesn't mean the "real" tow rating on the F-150 is 1 million lbs though.

It means EVs are incredibly good towing crazy heavy stuff short distances.
 
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In my last post #45678 I neglected to give the most obvious and stellar example of market segmentation within a specific vehicle model. Since the discussion began with the upcoming smaller car I stayed with cheap sedans vs 'pocket rockets'.

THE preeminent example, in North America, that is, is the Ford F150 and its imitators. Base price US$33835 Limited with all available options (except engines): US $89,050.
In this example the base version does sell, not to consumers, but to fleets and light-duty utility buyers. That does cover all production costs and serves to absorb considerable fixed costs too. As with then 'pocket rockets' the margins from the higher specification variants provide the profitability. As we also probably all know, those margins are so high that Ford, in particular, makes more than 100% of their profits on the F150 and its derivatives, Lincoln Navigator, Ford Expedition and Super Duty all of which share the same platform.

Tesla shares much electrical and drivetrain componetry, plus operating system, but the pure physical 'platform' as used by all other OEMs is not used by Tesla. Further, Tesla obtains scale economies by adopting integrated engineering and factory operating systems and sharing parts where functional differentiation is not relevant, such as cell production and BMS. As we see in all Tesla innovation, the next model to be built incorporates new technology as relevant that is retrofitted to other models as efficiently as is practical.

That Tesla approach, because it incorporates continuous innovation, is far more demanding of highly flexible automation than are other OEMs capabilities. That also enables fleet enhancement and the ability to addd features to existing vehicles, something not yet mastered by nearly all other OEM's Geely, among few others, actually now does OTA upgrades that are closely analogous to Tesla's.

The moral of the light truck (mostly SUV and pickup) business practice is that the features that appeal to purely utilitarian buyers provides a profitable base upon to build high-end consumer vehicles. Those high end models provide vastly more profitable models that are enabled solely because at their core they are quite cheap to make. Since Model S Tesla has been rapidly evolving to broaden its own approaches which have been stellar in execution.

As we see in all the other Tesla models the margins come from very attractive but much less expensive innovations. Intelligent and knowledgeable buyers still buy those optional features, knowing the reality.

Now we are sometimes struggling to understand these points. Why? Because these points are rarely, very rarely, openly discussed by OEM representatives. After all, does a Cadillac Escalade buyer at US$120,325 MSRP really want to know that the almost identical Chevy Suburban can be had for US$59200 MSCP, itself basically a Silverado US$36800 MSRP base? That practice is ubiquitous and not secret, but not shouted out in advertising either.

The other OEM's abilities stop at production, they cannot change anything after production because their business models are built on Tier One technology, not their own.

All of these characteristics are suddenly becoming more relevant than they ever were because Tesla has learned how to integrate variety in optional goods and services. Beginning with Cybertruck, Tesla optional equipment suddenly becomes a major issue, one we've pretty much ignored.

For the ancients among us, we're now seeing the likes of AMG, M, and their kind suddenly arrive in the 21st century. For even older ones it's like the spirit of the Prince Skyline suddenly arriving seven decades later.
 
Rust-Oleum is pretty high end stuff. As a shareholder, I'd prefer a more budget oriented rattle can. Maybe Walmart house brand. Oh wait, maybe not Walmart....
Back in the day when we were on a budget, the wife and i were in a wal-mart and saw them selling paint. We asked ourselves "How much different quality could paint be from wal-mart's $12/gallon to Dunn Edwards $38/gallon"

That was one of the biggest mistakes of our lives.
 
Back in the day when we were on a budget, the wife and i were in a wal-mart and saw them selling paint. We asked ourselves "How much different quality could paint be from wal-mart's $12/gallon to Dunn Edwards $38/gallon"

That was one of the biggest mistakes of our lives.
Ad astra per aspera. Glad you managed to recover- in both senses. :)
 
Guess you missed this earlier correcting this misperception?



If the CT was capable of safe sustained 22k lbs of towing they wouldn't have reduced the listed spec from 14k to 11k at launch.
But that was kinda the point @FEERSUMENDJIN 's was making.

Capable of safe sustained = "rated"

Many items are capable of things they have not been tested/verified of, and hence not rated for.
 
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But that was kinda the point @FEERSUMENDJIN 's was making.

Capable of safe sustained = "rated"

Many items are capable of things they have not been tested/verified of, and hence not rated for.

If that were true how do you explain their next post where they insisted it was about limitations on drivers licenses, not the actual capabilities of the truck?
(which also got debunked because in the few states that care at all actually reading their own source shows the towing cutoff is 10k, not the 11k it's rated for, nor the 14k it was originally spec'ed at)

Instead that second post in particular read as if it was capable of much greater safe/sustained towing just Tesla published a much lower rating...for... REASONS....
 
If that were true how do you explain their next post where they insisted it was about limitations on drivers licenses, not the actual capabilities of the truck?
(which also got debunked because in the few states that care at all actually reading their own source shows the towing cutoff is 10k, not the 11k it's rated for, nor the 14k it was originally spec'ed at)

Instead that second post in particular read as if it was capable of much greater safe/sustained towing just Tesla published a much lower rating...for... REASONS....
You both are annoying. Would you please get a room?
 
Today I was rereading my copy of the August 12, 1998 edition of the New York Times. An article reports that a federal appeals court voided a New York State requirement that 2% of vehicles sold in 1998 must be powered by electricity. The court sustained a requirement that 10% of vehicles sold in 2003 must be electric. Quote: "The ruling pleased automobile industry officials, who said it bought them time to develop electric cars that would be popular."

(My own speculation: Was it someone at Toyota who said that? Maybe it was GM.)
 
If that were true how do you explain their next post where they insisted it was about limitations on drivers licenses, not the actual capabilities of the truck?
(which also got debunked because in the few states that care at all actually reading their own source shows the towing cutoff is 10k, not the 11k it's rated for, nor the 14k it was originally spec'ed at)

Instead that second post in particular read as if it was capable of much greater safe/sustained towing just Tesla published a much lower rating...for... REASONS....
I'm not attempting to explain that.

I'm pointing out that what an object is capable of doing, and what it's rated for, are different things, and one shouldn't conflate the two.

Example 1: Climbing rope is rated for 500 lbs, but capable of 2,500 lbs. Reason: Margin for human safety.

Example 2: 1960's muscle car was capable of 350HP. It was rated for 295. Reason: Lesser insurance premiums.
 
Today I was rereading my copy of the August 12, 1998 edition of the New York Times. An article reports that a federal appeals court voided a New York State requirement that 2% of vehicles sold in 1998 must be powered by electricity. The court sustained a requirement that 10% of vehicles sold in 2003 must be electric. Quote: "The ruling pleased automobile industry officials, who said it bought them time to develop electric cars that would be popular."

(My own speculation: Was it someone at Toyota who said that? Maybe it was GM.)