Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JusRelax]

Is 250 going to be like a hot knife through margarine butter?

 

[NicoV]

Model S and X is a different story. After the €5k price drop at the beginning of Q2 there’s now an extra €8k discount on almost every S and X in inventory. There’s hundreds of them. Model S Plaid has come down from €139k to €125k and I’m seriously contemplating buying one. But Tesla’s trade-in offer of just €25k for my 5 year old Model S P100D is still holding me back, along with some other things.

I’m in the market for a Model S LR with 19” wheels, and not a single one of the Belgian inventory is discounted. Plaids and LR’s with 21” wheels are discounted though.
BTW: I got a quote of 18K ex VAT for my 7.5 year old S 90D.
I’ll keep waiting until either:
- Tesla does the same promo as in the US: transfer free supercharging to 6 years free supercharging on a new S/X
- Elon announces that FSD pricing will go up in EU.
- Tesla gives really good inventory discounts on an 19” S. The current plaid discount is not good enough for me to make me consider a Plaid.

 

[Rotte]

Morning FUD. Pretty pitiful attempt.

A Leaked Tesla Report Shows the Cybertruck Had Basic Design Flaws

The “alpha” version of the EV company’s first pickup had problems with braking, handling, noise, and leaks, according to an internal presentation.

www.wired.com

 

[unk45]

Continuing the slow return to my thread, after a nice respite and a critically-needed focusing on family matters -

There have been, understandably, a lot of suggestions as to why this recent spectacular rise of TSLA began. I agree with a good fraction of those - that is, I think there has been a concatenation of reasons - but out of courtesy to each I am not going to enumerate the ones which I feel bear more weight than others.

Rather, I am going to return to the one which mirrored best my own beliefs and which also was the proximal cause for my resuming posting. That is the post of Papafox’s that described an unnamed individual investor suggesting that his having been contacted by BlackRock was a five-alarm BUY! signal - that at least one arm of that inconceivably immense (between 9 and 11 trillion dollars under management) organization was about to or had started accumulating TSLA.

That occurred on 24 May, when TSLA was at $184.29. Eleven trading days, $62.40 and 33.9% ago. Helluva start to a good run. And can you imagine how horrible that investor would now be feeling had he taken the bait of the premium to those covered calls at that time?

This morning at 07:44 Eastern TSLA was at $249.32.
Yesterday after some initial confusion I reflected on comments of my old friend who retired from BlackRock following an illustrious career in financial issues there and elsewhere. So, I asked him, apropos of the @Papafox posts what he thought of TSLA these days. I had mentioned TSLA in conversations with him for the last decade or so, during which he was supportive fo the mission, unconvinced of the investment merits.

This time he said "I'm long TSLA" and nothing else. He has always been circumspect, so that I took as confirmation. My hamfisted post yesterday was soon after that conversation.

IMHO, there is more good news coming. That despite a generally questionable economic picture.

 

[winfield100]

Wen Golden Cross?View attachment 945100

golden cross ? real soon now

 

[thx1139]

That’s. OK. He’s paying us. A lot.

Like actions speak louder than words. Ford and GM got words, Tesla got cold hard cash.

 

[winfield100]

I'm definitely not one of those. I'm quite happy to share the Superchargers as long as Tesla can build them out fast enough so they aren't too crowded. And I think Tesla will deliver on that.

From a business standpoint, it makes sense to charge everyone the same. You want to build goodwill with non-Tesla owners so they come to love the brand and eventually buy a Tesla.

they need lots more super chargers (and they are appearing rapidly it seems anecdotally)
last road trip a Tesla 3 pulling a U-Haul trailor took up around 4 spaces pulled in to charge sideways, and a previous trip a model 3 pulling a sailboat circled 2x looking for spot to charge before leaving with out charging

 

[2daMoon]

Woke up this morning with a smile and just wanted to share...



Okay, off to find some coffee and then get comfortable to watch the next exciting episode of The Tesla Show

 

[scaesare]

There is also a potential license/royalty fee that GM/Ford needs to pay Tesla for each car they build that uses NACS.

I think, as pointed out, that you can implement NACS freely. The spec is freely available (@mongo supplied the link). This would seem to fall under "All our patent are belong to you". And you can use it with the charging network of your choice.

What remains to be understood is what the financial deal associated with using the Supercharger network is..

 

[Chunky Jr.]

Morning FUD. Pretty pitiful attempt.

A Leaked Tesla Report Shows the Cybertruck Had Basic Design Flaws

The “alpha” version of the EV company’s first pickup had problems with braking, handling, noise, and leaks, according to an internal presentation.

www.wired.com

key word : “had”

 

[FireMedic]

6.3 million shares already traded in pre market. Get your ready!

Alcaraz v. Djokovic, TMC, and a ticker…should be an entertaining morning.

 

[scaesare]

A wise man once told me "that cat's got 8 teets, but only 1 liver".

TL;dr when a SuC site has a 500KW connection to the grid, 8 cars get 60KW each, or 4 get 120 ea, or 2 get 250 ea... you'll wait when it's busy, whether ur plugged or unplugged.

You mentioned Megapacks later, and that's the real solution to needing to handle bursty usage patterns and demand charges without over-provisioning the grid supply at supercharger sites.

Which means that the Ford & GM deals just drove the demand for Megapacks up even further... who makes those again?

 

[scaesare]

VIN isn't exchanged in the CCS protocol... But obviously some unique identifier can be used. (Rivian doesn't currently supply a unique identifier, they use the same MAC address on every vehicle, which is why they aren't supported for EVgo's AutoCharge feature.)

I wonder if the Ford / GM deals include any other protocol implementation details other than the Plug and Charge/ISO15118 standards.

While those don't pass VIN, Tesla cars do (or at least they did at one time, even though the supercharger didn't do anything with it).

 

[scaesare]

So, how long before Toyota gets on board the NACS train? Given their lack of significant EV volume it won't cost them much to switch...

Wait, Superchargers can deliver Hydrogen too?

 

[scaesare]

moot != moat

I think @Right_Said_Fred must have meant "Tesla lost a moat."

Tesla is fully in charge. This has a tremendous psychological barrier. No moat lost, rather much gained from sharing.

If not, Tesla is still in charge and full control. Also, they will build tons more of the superchargers.

—

RSF: Thanks, fixed it.

I see what you did there...

 

[JRP3]

Tesla isn't losing its moat it's trapping everybody else inside

 

[Big Time]

Getting to be about time for our next leg up? 275? Naw….

310 was the last resistance with double top on sept 19?

RSI is a little high but macro rules all….

 

[2daMoon]

I think, as pointed out, that you can implement NACS freely. The spec is freely available (@mongo supplied the link). This would seem to fall under "All our patent are belong to you". And you can use it with the charging network of your choice.

What remains to be understood is what the financial deal associated with using the Supercharger network is..

With the understanding that Tesla marches to the beat of a different drummer, it seems obvious that any "financial deal" between Tesla and those who adopt the NACS will be minimal. Tesla will be gracious with help in sorting out the app for Ford, GM and any others who see the obvious benefit of opting into the charging infrastructure with the broadest scope and highest reliability.

Beyond that, Tesla will want other OEMs to help with the further expansion of the SC Network, but it would be against the mission for Tesla to rake them over the coals in the process.

Elon, and because of Elon, Tesla, is sincere in wanting to assist everyone in the acceleration of the MISSION. That is the bottom line. Anyone who is expecting there to be some grand financial boon to Tesla based upon profits beyond the cost of expansion and maintenance simply haven't grokked this.

The crazy thing is how many fail to see how massively profitable being essentially philanthropic can be for Tesla. They have a hand in every aspect of the growth and expansion of The Mission, and this is what is reflected in the company's balance sheet and in the TSLA price on the market.

 

[Olle]

This news implies to me that Tesla will now be a tier 1 automotive supplier to both F and GM, which must have pretty significant financial implications, would you not agree? Tesla “DNA” will be in every F and GM vehicle that uses the Supercharger network—that seems to me to be a pretty big financial deal. Tesla will invoice both companies for the time, engineering and resources it takes to get its charging software and hardware integrated into F and GM vehicles (not to mention the work Tesla is already doing for F on FSD and OTA updates). Additionally, Tesla will have access to some intellectual property rights, as well as be able to harvest huge loads of data from these vehicles long into the future (data has value, both financial and strategic). The fact that Tesla tech will be found in its biggest competitors has to be quite profound, I’d think.

And ok, you’re right, most wealthy people with EVs RIGHT NOW charge at home, but that will change in the future as lower-income apartment-dwellers start getting second- and third-hand EVs. Superchargers will be more heavily utilized then, and Tesla will be to EV charging what Exxon and Chevron fueling stations are today with ICE vehicles. And then think of all the government contracts Tesla will score for fleshing out not just long-distance charging infrastructure, but city/neighborhood infrastructure; government contracts will decrease upfront capital costs, and maintaining the chargers will be built into the cost the consumer pays, like any other service.

I don’t believe Tesla is losing its moat—I think it’s expanding it. Tesla will continue to be the leader in fastest charging, most reliable EVs for quite some time because they’ve been playing the game for so long. F and GM are just now seriously getting their feet wet. They’re far from being profitable in their EV segments, and just because they can make EVs that roll down the road doesn’t mean they won’t have their share of growing pains like Tesla did as they continue to scale.

Tesla is going to be the transportation/energy juggernaut of the future, the financial implications seem quite staggering, IMHO.

Exactly. Additionally while Tesla just expanded one of their many moats, the competing charging networks in North America just lost their ONLY moat, which was CCS. As we have seen in the applications for public funding, non Tesla fast chargers cost 5x Tesla supercharger per stall. Tesla's cost advantage is most likely widening even more now as supercharger build out accelerates with F and GM customers added.

 

[scaesare]

I don't think Tesla is losing its moat I think they are trapping Ford and GM inside their Tesla moat.

Read the board yesterday and today and you'll see many of the reasons. Here's a couple.

Human nature will make the drivers of vehicles other than Tesla's feel a little funny when they pull into a Tesla charging station. And they may question their decision to have not bought a Tesla.
If you pull into a Burger King to have lunch and all around you is information on why McDonald's is better what are you going to think

The amount of information Tesla will harvest from these other EVS will have huge advantages.Tesla will be harvesting information from other manufacturers but other manufacturers will not be harvesting information from Tesla's. This is a one-way Street (isn't that a moat?)
So many other reasons things are looking really good.

Tesla isn't losing its moat it's trapping everybody else inside, understand this and you won't be tempted to sell your shares. Elon never fails to surprise.. what's next

"Moats are lame"
-Elon Musk


I don't think Elon views it as "trapping everybody else inside", but rather that a high tide raises all boats.

It's one of the refreshing things about him as a CEO. He doesn't think that to win, others must lose.

But I certainly agree with you point that Tesla will certainly benefit from this in multiple ways...