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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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It takes 18hrs for Toyota to build a car which is considered to be the most efficient factory in the world.

I would love a SAY question during earnings to be "can you please share to us how many hrs it takes Tesla to build a Model Y from beginning to end at Giga Texas, and what is the ultimate goal you guys are working toward? How does this compared to industry standard?"

I would love to know the answer to this and it will put "but Tesla is a car company" to rest. The length of time it takes to build a car has a direct correlation to gross margins. This is the most important question to ask, especially about the end goal.
It’s hard to meaningfully compare to an industry standard because Tesla does a lot of stuff normally delegated to suppliers including seats and battery cells.

Total flow time is also affected by whether industrial processes can be run in parallel or if they must be in series, but that doesn’t have much impact on production capacity or unit cost.

Related but more informative questions for a manufacturing line are what is the cycle time and how many total labor hours are required per unit.
 
It’s hard to meaningfully compare to an industry standard because Tesla does a lot of stuff normally delegated to suppliers including seats and battery cells.

Total flow time is also affected by whether industrial processes can be run in parallel or if they must be in series, but that doesn’t have much impact on production capacity or unit cost.

Related but more informative questions for a manufacturing line are what is the cycle time and how many total labor hours are required per unit.
Yes yes, have Tesla say all of that while including an assembly time that's 100% faster than their peers.
 
Good news on the discrimination verdict getting cut back (still sizable, however):

 
Soo.. about the Model Y SR (or will it be called just "Model Y" like the 3 is now?)
with claimed to have 4680 cells, and not LFP. Model 3 SR+ and now model 3 have been lfp packs in europe for a couple years now.

My takeaway from this: the 4680 production is still lagging behind, they are ramping but it's not quite there yet. So Tesla can make more cars when they use them in SR packs.

Situation sounds similar to Lemur.

I'd say similar in one way and reversed in status. The Model 3 Lemur dropped in price and got replaced with a SR+ that was better in some ways.
1a644cbf5091a8870ce59fc6269aa8a192ac84cddafec592df6a07e160119423.png

I'm thinking this time the Model Y SR 4680 is better than the old Model Y SR 2170 and while the price might drop eventutally I think what we have in the new Model Y SR 4860 remains the new Model Y SR and isn't replaced by some other variant.
 
Boom Headshot!

Knowing CARB, they will do it too. They're a seriously over the top organization. I had to source a stock ecu just to get my STI smogged lol.

California unveils proposal to ban new gas-fueled cars by 2035​


California’s clean-air regulators unveiled a plan this week that would ramp up the sale of electric and zero-emissions vehicles while phasing out the sale of new gasoline-fueled vehicles by 2035, in an aggressive effort to combat the state’s greenhouse gas pollution.

The proposal, if enacted by the California Air Resources Board, would require 35% of new passenger vehicle sales to be powered by batteries or hydrogen by 2026, and 100% of sales to be net-zero emissions less than a decade later. The proposal also calls for zero-emissions sales to account for 68% of total sales by 2030.

 
My original share price prediction:
I posted my revised 5 Year Forecast in January and calculated a Share Price of $1,930 by year end.
It was computed as follows:
GAAP EPS $12.87 X 150 multiple = $1,930
This was based on deliveries of 1,555k.
5 Year Forecast - Published in January

Current Thoughts:
I have not updated my 5 year model; but here is my current back of the envelope thinking:
Prior to the Shanghai shutdown, my GAAP EPS had risen to $13.30 from my original $12.87 (based on strong Q4 financial metrics).
If Shanghai returns to production by May 1, I only expect a Full Year EPS reduction by about $1.00 taking my GAAP EPS from $13.30 to $12.30.
GAAP EPS $12.30 X 150 multiple = $1,845 per share.

Why only a $1.00 EPS impact from a 1 month Shanghai Shutdown?

If Shanghai comes on line May 1, I still expect deliveries of 1,555k for the year. The lost April production in Shanghai of 70k units can be recouped over the 8 months of May-Dec across all 4 sites. It would require a 6% increase in the balance of year production versus my original production numbers.
The 6% increase is achievable . . .remember, Tesla is chip constrained in 2022 and not production constrained. If they have chips for 1,555k cars they will build 1,555k cars assuming Shanghai is back online by May 1. The reason for the $1.00 decline in EPS despite deliveries staying at 1,555k is because of inefficiencies incurred with a one month shutdown (particularly with labor costs).

A price of $1,845/shr by year end may seem aggressive considering we are at about $1,000/shr in April especially in-light of covid, Ukraine, Inflation, Fed Res rates increases . . . but Tesla will keep marching forward putting up huge profits and cash flow numbers . . . . there is the likely share split arriving too.
Tesla often turns on a dime . . .if Q1 financials are strong and Shanghai reopens by May 1 . . .we can move to new highs quickly.
Investing in Tesla will be a flight to safety.

I came on the forums during this busy week of mine just for that post and then going back to work. Thanks. Really appreciate that info!
 
OTA isn't limitless or magical. There are plenty of faults that will still need actual physical work and/or part replacement doing and for those out of warranty, Tesla's labour rates are very high. Also, Tesla SC's are often pretty remote to many and as I've discovered personally, Tesla SC's work quality can be pretty shoddy as well. Quality, trusted, local mechanics being able to help can only be a good thing.

I want to highlight these points.

Tesla's labor rates are very high: So is all the European cars as well as any other high end cars. Just for a comparison, any decent third part mechanics (that does not cheat and overcharge) bills hourly starting at 125-150$/hour while the dealers/service centers charge double or more. Both are ripoff, but at least tesla is not (yet) hell bent on selling cars at low margin & making it up from the repairs.

Tesla SC's work quality can be pretty shoddy as well: So are the quality of non tesla repairs. But there is also another aspect. Most people miss on the fact that modern cars don't gel that well with aftermarket parts and if you go to outside mechanic, they thrive on this. The reason being cheap, fast availability (at a cost of low quality) as well as easy payment kickback/part price overcharging. BMW owners have experience of this compatibility problem.

Quality, trusted, local mechanics being able to help can only be a good thing: If there is such a mechanic that you can get consistently. If you analyze a mechanics time, you will find most only have experience in very few models & specific issues. Rest they will DIY, but will do inferior work compared to if you DIY because you can spend hours researching the internet.
I have severe bad experiences from all of the mechanics if I take the car for anything more than minor repairs. I wonder what these guys will do if we allow them to repair a tesla. Also, a tesla is much sophisticated than the average 4-10 year old car that they are used to repair. Even another question is would you be comfortable if your mechanics replaces a module and had to code the module to the car.

I support the 'right to repair' if it is a torch light, a generator, or even a laptop/smartphone, but not if it is a car with hundreds of sensors and operating system and FSD!!!
 
I'd say similar in one way and reversed in status. The Model 3 Lemur dropped in price and got replaced with a SR+ that was better in some ways.
1a644cbf5091a8870ce59fc6269aa8a192ac84cddafec592df6a07e160119423.png

I'm thinking this time the Model Y SR 4680 is better than the old Model Y SR 2170 and while the price might drop eventutally I think what we have in the new Model Y SR 4860 remains the new Model Y SR and isn't replaced by some other variant.
What Model Y SR 2170?
Afaik Y SR is only sold in China, and that is with an LFP battery pack.
 
Honestly I feel like the big money play is just wait until it's below this straight line and buy some LEAPs, then when it goes above the straight line either sell them for short term pocket money or hold to exercise for long term share accumulation. This straight line is painfully dumb and yet it's held for over 2 years now.
 
What Model Y SR 2170?
Afaik Y SR is only sold in China, and that is with an LFP battery pack.
There was a model Y being sold & delivered in USA briefly at the start of 2021. I have no idea with what battery format though.
 
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Quality, trusted, local mechanics being able to help can only be a good thing.
Well there is liability. I was service manager for a Dialysis machine company. We had a tech come for a week of factory maintenance training. He passed all tests and went back home to TX and serviced our equipment for a large customer of ours.

A few years later he decided he could improve our equipment and made changes that saved his boss some money but violated the safety design requirements of the system.

In testimony he claimed he cleared his changes with us but could not produce any such evidence. The cases dragged on for years and I had to provide evidence under oath related to the case even though I no longer worked at the company. Actually working at a TV station at the time.

I say “cases” because this trusted local tech managed to make changes to the system such that during a known failure mode the system was not capable of protecting in-treatment dialysis patients resulting in a tragedy involving several deaths and nearly 15 patients.

The tragedy made national news. The tech had no money so there were many millions of dollars of suits filed against us even though all equipment was out of support and we had not been part of any work on the system for years. We did not know of the changes and did not review or approve them.

One of the reasons I was working at a TV station was because this case highlighted the financial risk of medical equipment and liability which resulted in the company being sold well before the cases even came to trial. I could have gone to the new owner but opted for a severance package instead.

Subsequent to this event another tech “borrowed” parts from a VA hospital where he worked to repair a dialysis machine at different hospital where he occasionally did repairs as a side business. The part was improperly installed and proper operation was not confirmed before he returned it to service.

When the equipment failed in a way that would leave the patients unprotected, nurses stepped in and saved the patients before injury.

However about an hour later one of the patients died and the family filed a $50 million suit against us and others. Again, equipment was out of warranty, we did none of the service and we did not even sell them the part that was improperly installed.

There is a myth that the trusted local tech is as good as the factory tech but it is not true. Right-to-repair is a nice idea but deeply flawed in my experience. Primarily because there is no audited quality system in place. Both these techs were acting independently without oversight or review.

Later in my career, I returned to this medical device field and essentially solved this independent tech problem. In 20 years we never had a similar case. Quality systems are the right path.